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Escalation Railcard Misuse

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island

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I agree with AlterEgo.

The train company has no evidence that the OP committed any offences, and will not get any unless the OP gives them some.

However, it is incumbent on the OP to stop committing crimes if that is in fact what they are doing, before things catch up with them.
 
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trainingday

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Thanks all lots of info to digest so will have a long think about my next move meanwhile I’m using a fuel guzzling vehicle for commuting and avoiding the railways
 

Hadders

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Welcome to the forum!

To summarise, you've basically got two options here:

1. Co-operate with WMT. They will offer you an out of court settlement which will be the cost of the invalid tickets purchased plus an admin fee, typicaly around £175. Pay and that will be the end of the matter.

2. Do nothing. Purchasing tickets is not illegal, using them. It is highly unlikely that WMT has any evidence that you used the tickets, although we cannot be 100% certain of that. If you take this course of action you will continue to receive threatening letters from WMT threatening police involvement and prosecution for fraud for the forseeable future.

If you decide to go with option 2 then do not engage at all with WMT. Don't even acknowledge the emails from them.
 

skyhigh

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I'm not the OP, just someone giving my advice.
I'm sorry, but I agree it's poor advice.

The TOC has nowhere near enough evidence to take this to court. Saying anything just increases their evidence. Responding actually acknowledging that the Railcard was misused provides perfect evidence to start looking at a prosecution, not to mention plenty if they instead try a civil claim (which holds a much lower standard of proof).

Based on the sample size we've seen here, they will have sent out hundreds if not thousands of these emails. I expect that it's an automated system that's sending out the escalation emails and only responses are reviewed by a human. I would expect a majority of emails they send will remain unread or with no response.

What will happen is that they will send a few more threatening emails, probably say they'll pass the case over to BTP and that will be it. BTP do not have the resources to investigate hundreds of cases with no evidence.

The TOC may try a civil claim (which they are allegedly starting to do, not that we've seen much evidence of that here) but in comparison to a criminal case this is relatively low stakes and can be dealt with in the unlikely event it comes up.

In most of these we've seen, the TOC clearly doesn't even know the full name of the purchaser - let alone their address.

It is not in the OPs interest to reply to the emails in any form.
 

driverd

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I'm sorry, but I agree it's poor advice.

I'm of a disposition where I'd rather deal with something than have the anxiety of something looming over me, even if that means paying an out of court settlement.

If you've a bit more backbone than me/don't let these things stress you out, I'd absolutely fight the system - I just don't like that feeling of something unresolved looming large, especially if there was some credibility to the accusations.

As others have pointed out, there are various ways to approach this - the right approach for you is the one you feel most comfortable with.
 

AlterEgo

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I'm of a disposition where I'd rather deal with something than have the anxiety of something looming over me, even if that means paying an out of court settlement.

If you've a bit more backbone than me/don't let these things stress you out, I'd absolutely fight the system - I just don't like that feeling of something unresolved looming large, especially if there was some credibility to the accusations.

As others have pointed out, there are various ways to approach this - the right approach for you is the one you feel most comfortable with.
With respect, this is just offering a personal perspective about your own anxiety. This isn’t a therapy session or a class on ethics, this is a part of the forum where we should give posters factual and helpful advice about how much trouble they’re in and how to get out of it. Yes, sometimes people do come here and are very anxious, and sometimes it’s good to reassure them that things work in a certain way and it probably isn’t the end of the world, but -

We have to take the view of the layperson who might accompany someone to a police interview, advising people what evidence those accusing you might have collected, how your defence looks (quite often on here, it looks very bad!!) and what the consequences are of taking certain actions.

“I will confess to the fraud because I hope it’ll be over quickly with no further questions and you’ll be nice to me” is not good advice.
 

Hadders

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Just a gentle nudge that this thread is to assist @trainingday with their issue and replies here should focus on that rather than hypothetical discussion about how others would deal with the issue.
 

Chrius56000

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. . .I would be strongly inclined to ignore these emails and wait for W.M.T. to try and get a court to hear a case with no proven evidence against the OP!

. . . DON'T reply whatsoever to any of their emails – you are under NO legal or ethical obligation to say anything whatsoever to them, as the official police caution statement says!
 
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