• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Erasing "wrong-uns" from history

Status
Not open for further replies.

65477

Member
Joined
30 Mar 2017
Messages
257
What a fantastic comment. Agree
But museums have a duty of care to their visitors. Yes you need to explain history but your visitors don't want volumes of text and I want to avoid tempting people in just putting a name into their internet search engine and possibly finding distressing material that is not moderated
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
17,474
Location
Isle of Man
Yes you need to explain history but your visitors don't want volumes of text and I want to avoid tempting people in just putting a name into their internet search engine and possibly finding distressing material that is not moderated
The entire history of the whole world is full of distressing material.
 

GRALISTAIR

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2012
Messages
10,481
Location
Preston Lancs
Also as Channel 4 found out in the late 1980s, when they put an icon on the TV or TV Times pointing out it contained material of a sexual nature or violence, the audience INCREASED!

We human beings are weird.

The entire history of the whole world is full of distressing material.
 

GordonT

Established Member
Joined
26 May 2018
Messages
1,683
Hopefully in the wake of the Edwards case the BBC will at last recognise the need not to venerate specific employees to the degree which it has done over past years.
 

AlterEgo

Verified Rep - Wingin' It! Paul Lucas
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
29,276
Location
LBK
I want to avoid tempting people in just putting a name into their internet search engine and possibly finding distressing material that is not moderated
Why?
 

GRALISTAIR

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2012
Messages
10,481
Location
Preston Lancs
Hopefully in the wake of the Edwards case the BBC will at last recognise the need not to venerate specific employees to the degree which it has done over past years.
It would be a start but also not easy as some newscasters in the past have even got knighthoods/awards etc. So that is government and civil service not just the BBC.
 

Merle Haggard

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
3,888
Location
Northampton
It would be a start but also not easy as some newscasters in the past have even got knighthoods/awards etc. So that is government and civil service not just the BBC.

Do they have any journalism input to the news? Do they not just read from an autocue?

In the (rather lengthy) scene setting film segue before the BBC News you saw journalists in war zones wearing flack jackets - and Mr Edwards in makeup apparently pointing to some minor hairdressing deficiency.

By the way, hasn't his hair gone grey quickly? Worry, I suppose.
 

Merle Haggard

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
3,888
Location
Northampton
Well it does take the thread a little OT, but I am tempted to start a thread on journalistic quality of all sources including the USA!
I recently found on You Tube a report by a U.S. T.V. station about a double fatality at a level crossing. The news team went to a level crossing and interviewed the nearest resident, who had neither heard nor seen a thing despite being home at the time (so rather a pointless interview anyway!).
The train involved was described as electric but at the level crossing shown there was no O.L.E..
Turned out from the comments they'd gone to the wrong crossing but still transmitted the report...

Sorry off topic but railway related, perhaps what you had in mind.
 

Gostav

Member
Joined
14 May 2016
Messages
541
The practice of deleting "artist with bad record" is very common in Japanese media, either blurring their faces or deleting the episodes involved completely. The latter happens frequently to avoid trouble, resulting in some shows being missing episodes and never being re-aired or released the copy.
It turns out that News will soon be forgotten, people don't always remember the bad things someone did, which leads to people always starting to speculate on the reasons for their ban when seeing blurred images or discussing missing episodes - from financial crimes, child rape to disrespecting the emperor.
 

Western Lord

Member
Joined
17 Mar 2014
Messages
1,058
Do they have any journalism input to the news? Do they not just read from an autocue?

In the (rather lengthy) scene setting film segue before the BBC News you saw journalists in war zones wearing flack jackets - and Mr Edwards in makeup apparently pointing to some minor hairdressing deficiency.

By the way, hasn't his hair gone grey quickly? Worry, I suppose.
Newscaster was a word coined by Independent Television News when it started in 1955. They made a point of having the news read by journalists, whereas the BBC's newsreaders were just that, people reading the news from a script written by journalists. Thus on ITN you got the likes of Robin Day and on the BBC you got people like Richard Baker, a former actor.
 

londonbridge

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2010
Messages
1,870
The recent death of his widow prompts me to post that the BBC omitted Rolf Harris from last years “We Remember” programme, which is shown at the end of the year and covers celebrities and public figures who have passed away over the twelve months. I had a debate with several work colleagues over whether or not he could/should have been included. The argument against was that it could be seen as paying tribute, whilst one suggestion was that he could have been included by way of a photo and a tag line of “Musician and entertainer Rolf Harris fell from grace after being convicted of indecent assault charges”, thereby acknowledging his passing, but not showing a clip from one of his shows as they usually do.
 

Ashley Hill

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
5,576
Location
The West Country
“Musician and entertainer Rolf Harris fell from grace after being convicted of indecent assault charges”, thereby acknowledging his passing, but not showing a clip from one of his shows as they usually do.
This would be the sensible way of covering the death of any “wrong-un” in the future.
 

brad465

Veteran Member
Joined
11 Aug 2010
Messages
11,415
Location
Taunton or Kent
The recent death of his widow prompts me to post that the BBC omitted Rolf Harris from last years “We Remember” programme, which is shown at the end of the year and covers celebrities and public figures who have passed away over the twelve months. I had a debate with several work colleagues over whether or not he could/should have been included. The argument against was that it could be seen as paying tribute, whilst one suggestion was that he could have been included by way of a photo and a tag line of “Musician and entertainer Rolf Harris fell from grace after being convicted of indecent assault charges”, thereby acknowledging his passing, but not showing a clip from one of his shows as they usually do.
Peter Kay's charity "Amarillo" video featured Jimmy Saville as one of the stars walking alongside him (on a treadmill with a CGI background). The original video is still on YouTube, however whenever the video has been played again in later years for Children in Need or whatever, they've zoomed in to omit him from view. This is arguably the best option: allow the original to remain accessible, but not show the controversial stuff in sensitive settings.
 

Western Lord

Member
Joined
17 Mar 2014
Messages
1,058
The recent death of his widow prompts me to post that the BBC omitted Rolf Harris from last years “We Remember” programme, which is shown at the end of the year and covers celebrities and public figures who have passed away over the twelve months. I had a debate with several work colleagues over whether or not he could/should have been included. The argument against was that it could be seen as paying tribute, whilst one suggestion was that he could have been included by way of a photo and a tag line of “Musician and entertainer Rolf Harris fell from grace after being convicted of indecent assault charges”, thereby acknowledging his passing, but not showing a clip from one of his shows as they usually do.
My default position is that airbrushing people from history is a bad thing. On the other hand never having to hear Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport and Two Little Boys is a bonus.
 

Jimini

Established Member
Joined
8 Oct 2006
Messages
2,156
Location
Reading
Has anyone mentioned Mohamed Al Fayed yet?

Mohamed Al Fayed accused of multiple rapes by staff​

Five women say they were raped by former Harrods boss Mohamed Al Fayed when they worked at the luxury London department store.
The BBC has heard testimony from more than 20 female ex-employees who say the billionaire, who died last year aged 94, sexually assaulted them - including rape.
The documentary and podcast - Al-Fayed: Predator at Harrods - gathered evidence that, during Fayed’s ownership, Harrods not only failed to intervene, but helped cover up abuse allegations.
Harrods’ current owners said they were “utterly appalled” by the allegations and that his victims had been failed - for which the store sincerely apologised.
“The spider’s web of corruption and abuse in this company was unbelievable and very dark,” says barrister Bruce Drummond, from a legal team representing a number of the women.
Warning: this story contains details some may find distressing.
The incidents took place in London, Paris, St Tropez and Abu Dhabi.
“I made it obvious that I didn't want that to happen. I did not give consent. I just wanted it to be over,” says one of the women, who says Fayed raped her at his Park Lane apartment.
Another woman says she was a teenager when he raped her at the Mayfair address.
“Mohamed Al Fayed was a monster, a sexual predator with no moral compass whatsoever,” she says, adding that all the staff at Harrods were his “playthings”.
“We were all so scared. He actively cultivated fear. If he said ‘jump’ employees would ask ‘how high’.”
Fayed faced sexual assault claims while he was alive, but these allegations are of unprecedented scale and seriousness. The BBC believes many more women may have been assaulted.

'Fayed was vile'​

Fayed's entrepreneurial career began on the streets of Alexandria, Egypt, where he hawked fizzy drinks to passers-by. But it was his marriage to the sister of a millionaire Saudi arms dealer that helped him forge new connections and build a business empire.
He moved to the UK in 1974 and was already a well-known public figure when he took over Harrods in 1985. In the 1990s and 2000s, he would regularly appear as a guest on prime-time TV chat and entertainment shows.
Meanwhile, Fayed - whose son Dodi was killed in a car crash alongside Diana, Princess of Wales, in 1997 - has become known to a new generation through the two most recent Netflix series of The Crown.
But the women we have spoken to say his portrayal as pleasant and gregarious was far from the truth.
“He was vile,” says one of the women, Sophia, who worked as his personal assistant from 1988 to 1991. She says he tried to rape her more than once.
“That makes me angry, people shouldn't remember him like that. It's not how he was.”
Some of the women waived, or partially waived, their right to anonymity to be filmed - and the BBC agreed not to use surnames. Others chose to remain anonymous. Put together, their testimonies reveal a pattern of predatory behaviour and sexual abuse by Fayed.
The Harrods owner would regularly tour the department store's vast sales floors and identify young female assistants he found attractive, who would then be promoted to work in his offices upstairs - former staff, male and female, told us.
The assaults would be carried out in Harrods’ offices, in Fayed's London apartment, or on foreign trips - often in Paris at the Ritz hotel, which he also owned, or his nearby Villa Windsor property.
At Harrods, other former staff members told us it was clear what was happening.
“We all watched each other walk through that door thinking, ‘you poor girl, it's you today’ and feeling utterly powerless to stop it,” Alice, not her real name, says.

'He raped me'​

Rachel, not her real name, worked as a personal assistant in Harrods in the 1990s.
One night after work, she says she was called to his luxury apartment, in a large block on Park Lane overlooking London's Hyde Park. The building was protected by security staff and had an on-site office staffed by Harrods employees.
Rachel says Fayed asked her to sit on his bed and then put his hand on her leg, making it clear what he wanted.
“I remember feeling his body on me, the weight of him. Just hearing him make these noises. And… just going somewhere else in my head.
“He raped me.”
The BBC has spoken to 13 women who say Fayed sexually assaulted them at 60 Park Lane. Four of them, including Rachel, say they were raped.
Sophia, who says she was sexually assaulted, described the whole situation as an inescapable nightmare.
“I couldn't leave. I didn’t have a [family] home to go back to, I had to pay rent,” she says. “I knew I had to go through this and I didn’t want to. It was horrible and my head was scrambled.”
Gemma, who worked as one of Fayed’s personal assistants between 2007-09, says his behaviour became more frightening during work trips abroad.
She says it culminated in her being raped at Villa Windsor in Paris's Bois de Boulogne - a former home, post-abdication, of King Edward VIII and his wife Wallis Simpson.
Gemma says she woke up startled in her bedroom. Fayed was next to her bed wearing just a silk dressing gown. He then tried to get into bed with her.
“I told him, ‘no, I don't want you to’. And he proceeded to just keep trying to get in the bed, at which point he was kind of on top of me and really couldn't move anywhere.
“I was kind of face down on the bed and he just pressed himself on me.”
She says after Fayed raped her she cried, while he got up and told her aggressively to wash herself with Dettol.
“Obviously he wanted me to erase any trace of him being anywhere near me,” she explains.
Eight other women have also told us they were sexually assaulted by Fayed at his properties in Paris. Five women described the assaults as an attempted rape.


 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,561
Has anyone mentioned Mohamed Al Fayed yet?
As someone who was not a television personality, there is far less. of a problem with editing him out of programmes. However, the surprise is that the news coming out now is any surprise as this was in the public domain twelve months ago.
 

Jimini

Established Member
Joined
8 Oct 2006
Messages
2,156
Location
Reading
As someone who was not a television personality, there is far less. of a problem with editing him out of programmes. However, the surprise is that the news coming out now is any surprise as this was in the public domain twelve months ago.

True, that. However, as a lifelong Fulham supporter, erasing him from our club's history might prove tricky. We still sing a couple of chants about him even now!
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,561
However, as a lifelong Fulham supporter, erasing him from our club's history might prove tricky.
We played at your place shortly after his death, and I got a load of grief from some of our supporters for choosing not to stand and observe a minutes silence for him.
We still sing a couple of chants about him even now!
It's quite depressing how forgiving some (most?) football supporters are of anyone as long as they pump money into their club.
 

Jon_jpwh

Member
Joined
14 Jan 2021
Messages
87
Location
St Leonards on Sea
I watch the television programme The Repair Shop and I have noticed that in the recent episodes the introduction to the programme has been changed so that Jay Blades no longer appears. I presume that this is because he has recently been charged with controlling and coercive behaviour.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top