EMT: "Your responsibility to approach the TM or Senior Conductor"

[cactustwirly]

This whole "Oh, a TVM will solve your problem!" argument does not carry much more water than asking everyone to board through the guards door or whatever nonsense they were expecting.

I don't think Northern have a single cash TVM left, for example. What are you supposed to do if you require a ticket that the TVM can't sell, or if you have a warrant or RTV? Or if Northern have put the TVM inside the booking office, so when that's closed... Sure, you could say well let's phase out RTVs and warrants and find a way to accept cash (because apparently this is too difficult for Northern - even at staffed stations such as Wilmslow and Stockport they no longer take cash) and make a TVM that can sell every conceivable type of ticket. So the question becomes why has this not been done already? And would it not, actually, be more cost effective and more beneficial to have some more RPIs instead?

Metrolink's stops are all quite secure. None lack for CCTV and most are new, or refurbished, with security in mind. Even so their TVMs have been subject to attacks and have had to be updated with enhanced security. It's very rare that you would find a small Northern or EMT station that could be made as secure as a newly constructed Metrolink stop.

It works fine in the Thames Valley, I've caught the train after the ticket office has closed, you just use the card only TVM or get a permit to travel which you exchange for a ticket from a RPI

 

[cjmillsnun]

Not exactly. EMT where two or more train guards are rostered to work on a service have one booked as 'guard' and the others either 'pass' or 'guard assist' - they are just as likely to be delegated bits of the role of the guard in the rulebook, usually train dispatch, so the train guard can do the tickets and hoover up commission in the case of the local side.

That should be the other way round. Pass or guard assist should be doing the customer service/revenue side. The guard has the responsibility along with the driver for the safety of their train.

 

[LowLevel]

Not correct. The guard logged on the official record must be present and managing the train and will take charge in the event of an emergency. However any duty can be delegated to an appropriately qualified individual on board the train. That includes train dispatch. They must however sign the route, traction and rules to undertake that particular work.

 

[BestWestern]

I think we're into the nitty gritty of 'managing' a train and 'working' a train! If an assisting Guard is undertaking dispatch duties, who is 'in charge' of the train? It's open to some degree of interpretation! But yes, I agree of course, someone will be 'booked' as working the service.

 

[175mph]

I got on a Northern service to Doncaster from Crowle a few minutes ago, and I was only sold a ticket because when the conductor was walking past, I said I needed one.

 

[323235]

This is fairly common practice on Northern nowadays and something I dislike as the dishonest can get away with not buying a ticket.

 

[philthetube]

I'd say nationally there should be 3 options. Any given option must apply to the entire run of a given timetabled train service and be shown in the timetable clearly.

1. Paytrain. Payment on board always acceptable (unless a barrier physically prevents it). Take a seat and pay the guard when he comes through. If he doesn't, legitimate free journey unless you meet a barrier in which case the appropriate fare is due. Guards to carry vouchers as above to issue if for any reason they can't sell tickets to back up this point. TVMs and ticket offices may be provided for passenger convenience but are not mandatory to use. This would typically be rural branch lines only.

2. Penalty Fares with Guard. Payment at station, TVMs MUST be provided at any station served by a train in this category. If you can't, you must identify yourself to the Guard on the platform before boarding. Guards to carry vouchers as above. This would be most IC and regional express services.

3. Penalty Fares on DOO services. Absolute compulsory ticketing, i.e. anyone boarding without a ticket is automatically subject to a PF with no excuse acceptable whatsoever. All stations on these services must have at least two TVMs with both card and cash acceptance. In the event of failure or need for a ticket the TVM can't do, the passenger must telephone for a reference number as per Metrolink. This would be city commuter type services.

Each of these would be marked with the appropriate symbol (like the Swiss Selbstkontrolle eye, perhaps) on the timetables, the PIS, at stations, on the train itself etc.

To do options 2 and 3 you would need infallible ticket selling options at all stations,which could take all payment types and sell all possible tickets, RTV are also a valid payment method. There are currently issues with Priv tickets, some rovers and some routes.

So far as telephoning goes, how many phones are the railway going to provide in case a few people turn up and how many people to answer calls and will the pens and paper be available to write these numbers down, and will the guard have to phone control to check that the ref number is genuine.

Buy a ticket before travelling if your ticket is available is much simpler, it just needs to be publicised better, big signs over station entrances etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly that system works on Metrolink. As for RTVs, do we really need them? Pay all compensation as a refund on the method of payment used and they could be abolished.

 

[35B]

Exactly that system works on Metrolink. As for RTVs, do we really need them? Pay all compensation as a refund on the method of payment used and they could be abolished.

Cash? In the post?


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[Bletchleyite]

Cash? In the post?

Cheque, BACS or refund in cash at a staffed station.

 

[Starmill]

It works fine in the Thames Valley, I've caught the train after the ticket office has closed, you just use the card only TVM or get a permit to travel which you exchange for a ticket from a RPI

Where would we get several hundred (as this is how many stations are affected) new machines to issue permits to travel from? How much would that cost and would that really be a sensible use of money?