EMT/VT query

[Aictos]

I'm currently looking at the 4th September for a day out covering a few number of lines, now I do have some queries regarding both companies.

1. Is the 0637 St Pancras to Scarborough a 222 or a HST?
2. What are the Train Managers like on that route, are 1st class upgrades possible for staff travel?
I know it is possible to upgrade at weekends with East Coast but not sure on EMT.

3. Same query as Query 2 but directed at Virgin Trains.

 

[sonic2009]

in answer to question 1.

it will be a class 222

 

[Aictos]

in answer to question 1.

it will be a class 222

Okay thanks for that, I thought HSTs were cleared for the Scarborough branch?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

2. If you are talking about a staff discounted Anytime ticket, there is no reason why you can't, I did it on MML quite a few years back now, but no issue was made about it. As for the TMs, on my last trip on EMT, they basically caused a fifteen minute delay at Market Harborough after refusing to allow a passenger to alight (after she had walked two coach lengths to try to get off, but aside from that, no real problems, but I rarely use EMT these days.

3. As above except 'The Manual' (FRPP) suggests holders of Standard Anytime Fares can upgrade for free, but I have never done it, and I have never had a problem with the on-board staff, although to be fair, I don't often use VT either.

 

[MichaelAMW]

2. ..... As for the TMs, on my last trip on EMT, they basically caused a fifteen minute delay at Market Harborough after refusing to allow a passenger to alight (after she had walked two coach lengths to try to get off, but aside from that, no real problems, but I rarely use EMT these days.

Excuse the thread drift, if that's the right term, but as a regular MML traveller I am interested in what happened in this little 'incident'.

Thanks!

Michael.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Sent PM

 

[wibble]

3. As above except 'The Manual' (FRPP) suggests holders of Standard Anytime Fares can upgrade for free, but I have never done it, and I have never had a problem with the on-board staff, although to be fair, I don't often use VT either.

If you've used a TOC card to get Priv rate, you're not eligible for the free upgrade on Virgin, it's only available to those who have paid the undiscounted (i.e. full) fare.

 

[First class]

If you've used a TOC card to get Priv rate, you're not eligible for the free upgrade on Virgin, it's only available to those who have paid the undiscounted (i.e. full) fare.

Utter rubbish mate.

As long as the ticket type is 'Anytime', i.e. an 'Open' ticket, (Anytime Single or Anytime Return- but not Anytime Day Sgl or Anytime Day Rtn), then you can upgrade for free, regardless of discount type.

16-25, DSB, SNR, CHILD, PRV etc are all valid discounts.

Virgin Trains:
Upgrades are priced at £15.00 for adults and £5 for children for a single journey, regardless of the length of journey.
On weekends and Bank Holidays, upgrades to First Class on Virgin Trains is free of charge if holding a Standard Class Anytime ticket by approaching the Train Manager.
For a trial period only, Virgin Trains will be offering the Weekend Upgrade for £10 between Saturday 24th July through to Sunday 5th September between London Euston / Watford Junction / Milton Keynes Central and Rugby / Coventry / Birmingham and Wolverhampton.

I am also rail staff and have done this many a time myself from Liverpool-London Euston. One of the times I actually forgot about this and when the TM came through he advised me I was able to sit in first class for no additional charge.

 

[Aictos]

I've been looking at priv fares using NFM06 which is in date until sometime in September, now bearing in mind I'm only entitled to buying Standard Class Priv tickets which is why I'm restricted to Advance First Class tickets officially so why would NFM06 then show me a fare from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston priced at £18.50 but labelled as a Advance 1st Single with Virgin Trains only?

With my entitlement, I should be able to buy this ticket at any ticket office shouldn't I?

The fare that I usually would have been sold is priced at £32.75 which is a Anytime Single so obviously I want to go for the inexpensive option.

So that being said, can I be sold the Virgin Trains only ticket?

 

[wibble]

Utter rubbish mate.

As long as the ticket type is 'Anytime', i.e. an 'Open' ticket, (Anytime Single or Anytime Return- but not Anytime Day Sgl or Anytime Day Rtn), then you can upgrade for free, regardless of discount type.

16-25, DSB, SNR, CHILD, PRV etc are all valid discounts.



I am also rail staff and have done this many a time myself from Liverpool-London Euston. One of the times I actually forgot about this and when the TM came through he advised me I was able to sit in first class for no additional charge.

You're talking rubbish 'mate' - I have that first hand from Virgin Trains from their Retail Helpdesk.

 

[matt]

Okay thanks for that, I thought HSTs were cleared for the Scarborough branch?

They are but the Scarborough service is a 222

 

[First class]

I've been looking at priv fares using NFM06 which is in date until sometime in September, now bearing in mind I'm only entitled to buying Standard Class Priv tickets which is why I'm restricted to Advance First Class tickets officially so why would NFM06 then show me a fare from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston priced at £18.50 but labelled as a Advance 1st Single with Virgin Trains only?

With my entitlement, I should be able to buy this ticket at any ticket office shouldn't I?

The fare that I usually would have been sold is priced at £32.75 which is a Anytime Single so obviously I want to go for the inexpensive option.

So that being said, can I be sold the Virgin Trains only ticket?

No. It is poor programming in Avantix. It is still an Advance ticket, to which PRIV discount is not permitted.
Avantix sometimes lists tickets or gives discounts which are not available. You should use a TIS, although you should already be aware that PRIV discount is only available on SDS, SOS, SDR, SOR (SPx) and various rangers/rovers.

 

[Aictos]

No. It is poor programming in Avantix. It is still an Advance ticket, to which PRIV discount is not permitted.
Avantix sometimes lists tickets or gives discounts which are not available. You should use a TIS, although you should already be aware that PRIV discount is only available on SDS, SOS, SDR, SOR (SPx) and various rangers/rovers.

Thought so, the usual ticket I get sold is usually a anytime single marked with a priv discount.

Still, good thing I checked though ain't it

 

[Paul Kelly]

No. It is poor programming in Avantix.

Well, "garbage in garbage out" as they say; the error is in the data and so the fault probably lies with Virgin. In my adventures with the Avantix data I've learned that each ticket type (out of the 1200 or so in existence) is assigned to one of 20 discount categories (numbered from 0-19). The database record for each railcard/discount type in turn specifies what discount, if any, should be applied to each of these 20 categories. Staff travel cards (PRV) give 75% discount on category 0, 4 and 13 tickets. 0 is in general anytime tickets, 4 is season tickets and other such tickets valid for a fixed period of time, and 13 is various sleeper berth supplements.

Most advance tickets are in category 1. So it looks like ticket type BHO (which the £18.50 advance 1st single to Manchester is) has been mistakenly placed in category 0 (anytime). But I notice that BGO, also an advance 1st single is in category 3 (which in general contains only off-peak tickets). You can see this one in Avantix Traveller if you put in railcard BFD (British Ferries Staff Discount), which offers a 26% discount on anytime and off-peak tickets but not on advance. In the list of fares for London - Manchester, ticket type BGO advance 1st has been reduced from £153.50 to £113.60 while all the other surrounding advance tickets have not been discounted at all.

So it just looks like Virgin have made a mess of adding discount categories to some of their tickets. I'd be surprised if these don't show up in other ticket issuing systems as well though, seeing they are caused by underlying errors in the data?

 

[yorkie]

It does not surprise me that what Virgin say and what the guards do are not the same, especially when it comes to ridiculous unenforceable and undocumented 'rules' that cannot be found in the public domain, and even more so when it is anti-staff.

Most TMs are not in the business of chinging people up for rules that are hidden away in some top secret location, especially not fellow staff.

 

[scrapy]

The National Rail website states the following for Virgin Trains weekend 1st class upgrades

On weekends and Bank Holidays, upgrades to First Class on Virgin Trains is free of charge if holding a Standard Class Anytime ticket by approaching the Train Manager

There is no mention of any restriction on discounted tickets, it does not say 'full anytime'. I personally have had no problem from Train Managers upgrading. Anytime day tickets (generally shorter journeys) are not upgradable for free.

 

[tony_mac]

Anytime day tickets (generally shorter journeys) are not upgradable for free.

I have an email from Virgin trains that says they are!

Thank you for contacting Virgin Trains.

I am glad to inform you that you will be able to upgrade to First Class free of charge if you hold a Anytime Day ticket by informing the Train Manager, please note that this subject to availability.