EMR Leicester missed connections

[Belperpete]

Remarkably the Matlock leaves Derby on time and often waits a few hundred metres north of Derby station to let the ‘connecting’ Sheffield bound train pass….

Unfortunately this is a consequence of the Derby resignalling. Prior to that the Matlocks would be held in the station to avoid delaying the Sheffield train. Now they can depart on time, and be held on the four track north of Derby. Something similar happens with trains heading to Crewe and Birmingham, which can depart Derby on time, only to be held on the four track outside Derby. Probably done to avoid a delay attribution, but it doesn't do anything for the passengers.

 

[Spartacus]

Unfortunately this is a consequence of the Derby resignalling. Prior to that the Matlocks would be held in the station to avoid delaying the Sheffield train. Now they can depart on time, and be held on the four track north of Derby. Something similar happens with trains heading to Crewe and Birmingham, which can depart Derby on time, only to be held on the four track outside Derby. Probably done to avoid a delay attribution, but it doesn't do anything for the passengers.

There's always going to be a delay one way or another, it's nothing to do with attribution and north of Derby's little changed to before, they could always be held at Breadsall as it usually is now, the only big difference is the goods lines are now open to passenger services.

The platform usage is a bigger thing

 

[Stampy]

It always used to frustrate me that when on an Southbound "Ivanhoe" Line service from either Loughborough or Barrow-upon-Soar that I would miss an Eastbound Cross-Country service back to Peterborough by 5 minutes...

In fact, it used to depart Leicester and have to wait for OUR train to get into Syston, before PASSING it and heading towards Melton Mowbray.

 

[Belperpete]

There's always going to be a delay one way or another, it's nothing to do with attribution and north of Derby's little changed to before, they could always be held at Breadsall as it usually is now, the only big difference is the goods lines are now open to passenger services.

The platform usage is a bigger thing

Agreed that there is always going to be a delay, it's just that holding the train in the station allows passengers to make the connection whereas holding it after the station doesn't.

 

[Trainman40083]

Not always, sometimes the Matlock is sent first and then held just prior to Duffield to let the ‘connecting’ express go past!

I think the issue with the Matlock train is that unless it is fairly on time, the delay can knock on throughout the day, as late back delays the next up the branch at Ambergate.

 

[Belperpete]

I think the issue with the Matlock train is that unless it is fairly on time, the delay can knock on throughout the day, as late back delays the next up the branch at Ambergate.

Except that letting it out of Derby station on time, only to hold it outside the station or at Broadholme, doesn't save it any time!

 

[43066]

Except that letting it out of Derby station on time, only to hold it outside the station or at Broadholme, doesn't save it any time!

It saves the following IC time though.

 

[Spartacus]

Except that letting it out of Derby station on time, only to hold it outside the station or at Broadholme, doesn't save it any time!

It does, it'll usually get it to Ambergate a little sooner, and prevent delay to the following Cross Country service, it just depends on how late everything is and what else is about, from freight to services to Nottingham and even the one coming back from Matlock, which sometimes uses the same route as the northbound one at Derby

 

[Trainman40083]

Except that letting it out of Derby station on time, only to hold it outside the station or at Broadholme, doesn't save it any time!

You know that, I know that. EMR and the signalman should know that. Maybe they get a penalty for a late departure.

 

[Dr Hoo]

All of these ‘quick dash across the platform’ non-connections sound alluring in theory but tend to fall apart at the first contact with reality.
As a former Station Manager I well know that the issue is never with the fit regulars who are able to achieve it in 30 seconds. It’s the fact that another passenger hoping to make the same journey is at the far end of the arriving train, never been to Leicester, Derby or wherever before, is waiting for booked assistance to turn up with the ramp and immediately turns 30 seconds into five minutes.
Meanwhile the signal had been cleared, route locked and other movements brought to a stand.

 

[Travelmonkey]

All of these ‘quick dash across the platform’ non-connections sound alluring in theory but tend to fall apart at the first contact with reality.
As a former Station Manager I well know that the issue is never with the fit regulars who are able to achieve it in 30 seconds. It’s the fact that another passenger hoping to make the same journey is at the far end of the arriving train, never been to Leicester, Derby or wherever before, is waiting for booked assistance to turn up with the ramp and immediately turns 30 seconds into five minutes.
Meanwhile the signal had been cleared, route locked and other movements brought to a stand.

Add onto the fact ramp being taken to the wrong train, had that before on a few joined units or the station not informed of a assist, sometimes timings do go down the pan, when I used to regularly go between Warrington & Tutbury&Hatton with a change at Crewe My avanti would come in as my EMR connection is pulling out, in them cases I breath a heavy sigh and grab a coffee before next departure. Although if I was encountered with a 2 hour wait to get to Matlock I'd casually saunter to the city bus station and try the transpeak or the 6.1 although relying on trent barton is probably about as risky , definitely fill in my delay repay regardless at my destination.

 

[InTheEastMids]

On a separate note, I often travel by EMR service from Leicester to Derby and I've noticed that timekeeping from London seems very poor, there are often late arrivals, not by a great deal, usually about 5-10 minutes but it is irritating and I often wonder why it's such a regular occurrence.

MR’s long distance services are subject to delay contagion from other operators due to the extremely capacity constrained nature of the MML

The two specific issues that frequently cause 5-10 mins delay heading North seem to be:

1. Catching a Thameslink that's stopped on the fast line platforms at St Alban's, and doesn't cross to the slow towards Harpenden

2. Catching up the Corby service stopping at Wellingborough as you can't go Down fast to Down Slow south of the station

 

[LowLevel]

Add onto the fact ramp being taken to the wrong train, had that before on a few joined units or the station not informed of a assist, sometimes timings do go down the pan, when I used to regularly go between Warrington & Tutbury&Hatton with a change at Crewe My avanti would come in as my EMR connection is pulling out, in them cases I breath a heavy sigh and grab a coffee before next departure. Although if I was encountered with a 2 hour wait to get to Matlock I'd casually saunter to the city bus station and try the transpeak or the 6.1 although relying on trent barton is probably about as risky , definitely fill in my delay repay regardless at my destination.

That's rare - the platform staff at Crewe have always been blatant when it comes to disappearing conveniently when the 9Mxx Avanti is late and due in at around the moment the 1Nxx EMR is meant to leave, to the point of then shepherding the connecting passengers in front of them as they trundle along to TRTS the EMR service up to 5 minutes late without any control authority.

 

[baz962]

The two specific issues that frequently cause 5-10 mins delay heading North seem to be:

1. Catching a Thameslink that's stopped on the fast line platforms at St Alban's, and doesn't cross to the slow towards Harpenden

2. Catching up the Corby service stopping at Wellingborough as you can't go Down fast to Down Slow south of the station

Actually it's also catching up the Thameslink that stops at st Alban's and does cross at Harpenden ,I was behind one yesterday.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Actually it's also catching up the Thameslink that stops at st Alban's and does cross at Harpenden ,I was behind one yesterday.

Thanks - yes my Covid-addled brain didn't get that right

 

[Trainman40083]

That's rare - the platform staff at Crewe have always been blatant when it comes to disappearing conveniently when the 9Mxx Avanti is late and due in at around the moment the 1Nxx EMR is meant to leave, to the point of then shepherding the connecting passengers in front of them as they trundle along to TRTS the EMR service up to 5 minutes late without any control authority.

I have read your comment about Crewe and I have to agree. But I would add that there were times, when the Derby train was on time and ready to go, the platform staff were nowhere to see seen.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Prehaps I just had poor luck, been a good couple years since i did that trip regularly.