Email from WMT’s Digital Fraud Team

[Haywain]

OK, thanks again, i apologise for being a little jumpy.

No problem, it's understandable.

 

[Starmill]

If you had paid the Penalty Fare, you can't be prosecuted for that occasion. Doesn't appear there's anything relevant from any other occasions so I'd also echo the suggestion to ignore correspondence unless a charge shows up.

 

[Towers]

If it is genuinely the case that a TOC can obtain a ticket purchase history spanning hundreds of journeys, sit down and work out what they think someone owes them for it all and then send out a threatening letter demanding payment, yet cannot simultaneously establish that their ‘defendant’ legitimately held a Railcard and actually owes nothing, then something needs to change sharpish. A completely unacceptable situation.

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

Also i keep forgetting to mention. I received another email about an hour after the ‘Final Warning’ titled ‘Recall: Final Warning’, though i ignored this as they had my full name and email address so it’s clearly intended for me.

That "Recall" email seems very strange. Is WMT trying to row back on its accusation? What were the contents of that follow-up email? Any noticeable differences from the original?

 

[odetoboy]

That "Recall" email seems very strange. Is WMT trying to row back on its accusation? What were the contents of that follow-up email? Any noticeable differences from the original?

doesn’t seem as such. they sent an almost identical follow up of the ‘final warning’ email about an hour after that, with all the grammatical and formatting errors amended. still a bit weird.

If you had paid the Penalty Fare, you can't be prosecuted for that occasion. Doesn't appear there's anything relevant from any other occasions so I'd also echo the suggestion to ignore correspondence unless a charge shows up.

okay, gotcha. i assume i’ll definitely know it when i receive a tangible charge.

 

[Starmill]

If it is genuinely the case that a TOC can obtain a ticket purchase history spanning hundreds of journeys, sit down and work out what they think someone owes them for it all and then send out a threatening letter demanding payment, yet cannot simultaneously establish that their ‘defendant’ legitimately held a Railcard and actually owes nothing, then something needs to change sharpish. A completely unacceptable situation.

Presumably enough people just pay up that they consider it worthwhile to send these emails. Ethics and so on are usually secondary to money.

 

[WesternLancer]

Presumably enough people just pay up that they consider it worthwhile to send these emails. Ethics and so on are usually secondary to money.

Presumably many who pay up do so because they know they have been evading and feel they have been caught.

That isn’t the op s position however. They were not evading just had been unable to show a digital ticket on one occasion.

Imagine this back in the day of paper tickets. Lose your paper ticket en route and find yourself accused of never having bought a ticket for the previous 5 years

 

[odetoboy]

Hi again everyone,

So far I have stuck to the general consensus of not replying, however I have come across a potentially significant factor - I wanted to post an update on it just in case it changes things.

As you know, the original email i received claimed a date in early January, and we are quickly approaching the 6 month mark for that one, but we aren’t there yet.

I originally thought the date provided in the email was the day upon which i received a penalty fare, but it turns out that was around 2 months later according to my records, which was admittedly a stupid oversight. On the day in question, I bought a ticket to visit my parents, and clearly hadn’t realised it was a single (which was entirely valid for my outward journey) and not a return - not until yesterday. The ticket has been scanned according to the provider, and the trouble is i cannot for the life of me remember how i got home - whether i used the train or whether one of my parents drove me back home.

All i know is that on the day I clearly had no issues returning home as i’ve checked my text messages with my dad, partner and flatmate and theres no mention whatsoever of being stopped or questioned in any of them, which would be unusual since I’m quite the complainer! Additionally, there is no evidence i paid for a replacement ticket in my bank statement from that month, I checked on the day and the weeks afterwards.

These concerns are not helped by how intentionally vague this paragraph in the first email is:
~~~
We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on [date] when you were approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket but due to a Ticket discrepancy, no railcard. It has been reported to the Digital Fraud Department for further investigation.
~~~
So my questions are:
- Was i potentially reported to the DFD while still being permitted to complete my journey, in the case that I did use the train to return?
- If that was the case, would this invalidate any prosecution, as the guard did not take any immediate action?
- And, separately, does that paragraph only refer to the perceived issue with my railcard? And is the vagueness supposed to cause concerns exactly like this?

If the advice remains the same, I apologise for filling up the forum again. I suffer from anxiety and I’ve just been a bit of an anxious wreck this week because of all this and you were all a massive help on Monday and Tuesday, so maybe I’m just looking for a little reassurance from people that know their stuff, but I don’t mean to potentially dump my baseless concerns on you all.

As a result, if this is a load of rubbish and potentially incriminating then please also let me know that. I’ve tried to be as vague yet specific as possible. I suppose this is what Hadders means by appetite for risk!

Thanks again

 

[Egg Centric]

Hi again everyone,

So far I have stuck to the general consensus of not replying, however I have come across a potentially significant factor - I wanted to post an update on it just in case it changes things.

As you know, the original email i received claimed a date in early January, and we are quickly approaching the 6 month mark for that one, but we aren’t there yet.

I originally thought the date provided in the email was the day upon which i received a penalty fare, but it turns out that was around 2 months later according to my records, which was admittedly a stupid oversight. On the day in question, I bought a ticket to visit my parents, and clearly hadn’t realised it was a single (which was entirely valid for my outward journey) and not a return - not until yesterday. The ticket has been scanned according to the provider, and the trouble is i cannot for the life of me remember how i got home - whether i used the train or whether one of my parents drove me back home.

All i know is that on the day I clearly had no issues returning home as i’ve checked my text messages with my dad, partner and flatmate and theres no mention whatsoever of being stopped or questioned in any of them, which would be unusual since I’m quite the complainer! Additionally, there is no evidence i paid for a replacement ticket in my bank statement from that month, I checked on the day and the weeks afterwards.

These concerns are not helped by how intentionally vague this paragraph in the first email is:
~~~
We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on [date] when you were approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket but due to a Ticket discrepancy, no railcard. It has been reported to the Digital Fraud Department for further investigation.
~~~
So my questions are:
- Was i potentially reported to the DFD while still being permitted to complete my journey, in the case that I did use the train to return?
- If that was the case, would this invalidate any prosecution, as the guard did not take any immediate action?
- And, separately, does that paragraph only refer to the perceived issue with my railcard? And is the vagueness supposed to cause concerns exactly like this?

If the advice remains the same, I apologise for filling up the forum again. I suffer from anxiety and I’ve just been a bit of an anxious wreck this week because of all this and you were all a massive help on Monday and Tuesday, so maybe I’m just looking for a little reassurance from people that know their stuff, but I don’t mean to potentially dump my baseless concerns on you all.

As a result, if this is a load of rubbish and potentially incriminating then please also let me know that. I’ve tried to be as vague yet specific as possible. I suppose this is what Hadders means by appetite for risk!

Thanks again

This is a slightly odd post; is there some reason you would not remember being challenged by revenue staff on the day? I would certainly remember if I were challenged by revenue staff and my memory is atrocious.

Now that said, WMT are clearly automating some of these emails (automation seems to correlation with coherence in their case) and given their general compentence levels the fact that some date is in the letter doesn't mean it is a date you were challenged, it could also be the 'suspect' date or something like that.

But it would be good to hear an answer to my first question.

 

[odetoboy]

This is a slightly odd post; is there some reason you would not remember being challenged by revenue staff on the day? I would certainly remember if I were challenged by revenue staff and my memory is atrocious.

Now that said, WMT are clearly automating some of these emails (automation seems to correlation with coherence in their case) and given their general compentence levels the fact that some date is in the letter doesn't mean it is a date you were challenged, it could also be the 'suspect' date or something like that.

But it would be good to hear an answer to my first question.

Ha, thats a fair point, maybe it really was a load of rubbish. No there’s no reason at all for me to forget, i have quite a good memory, and im quite an anxious and non confrontational person too - so i can remember the entire Penalty Fare exchange from March, for example. This concern has probably just arisen from my tendency to overthink to be quite honest.

Thank you for your extremely rational reply, stuff like that really helps bring me back down to earth!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2025 ==

Hi all, I’ve got a proper update for you now!

As the deadline for responding has passed, i received this email from the Digital Fraud Team.
~~~
Re: Escalation of case.

As we have not heard from you, we are now reporting you to our Prosecutions Team and British Transport Police, this will now incur further costs and fees.

They will contact you in the coming weeks, we advise you respond to them as to ignore this could lead to legal action.

Your case will no longer be with us from the 15th July 2025, and we will forward all evidence to our Prosecutions team and British Transport Police.

Please note:  West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.

Kind regards,

Investigator ID X

Fraud and Investigations Manager
~~~
This reads to me as @Haywain being completely right:
- With regards to the date mentioned in the original email, the 15th (date of handover to Prosecutions) will be past the 6 month mark, so to me this suggests they aren’t somehow pursuing a byelaw offence that i was unaware of (which was what was getting so worked up about)
- Also they haven’t given any adequate disclosure, a charge hasn’t popped up, etc.
- Finally, connected to all this, they’ve ‘given’ me ANOTHER WEEK to ‘step on a rake’.

If I’m misunderstanding any of these then let me know.

Finally, I assume if they do contact me the BTP will send a letter? I moved address at the end of June and i’m assuming WMT only have my old address. Would it be worth setting up a postal redirect for 3 months?

Cheers again

 

[odetoboy]

Hi all, i posted an update in my thread regarding a new email i received today. The thread wasn’t bumped due to doublepost prevention, so i thought i’d post a link here and if the mods could be so kind to delete it once someone else replies. If this isn’t allowed then i apologise!

Email from WMT’s Digital Fraud Team

OK, thanks again, i apologise for being a little jumpy. No problem, it's understandable.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[WesternLancer]

Ha, thats a fair point, maybe it really was a load of rubbish. No there’s no reason at all for me to forget, i have quite a good memory, and im quite an anxious and non confrontational person too - so i can remember the entire Penalty Fare exchange from March, for example. This concern has probably just arisen from my tendency to overthink to be quite honest.

Thank you for your extremely rational reply, stuff like that really helps bring me back down to earth!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2025 ==

Hi all, I’ve got a proper update for you now!

As the deadline for responding has passed, i received this email from the Digital Fraud Team.
~~~
Re: Escalation of case.

As we have not heard from you, we are now reporting you to our Prosecutions Team and British Transport Police, this will now incur further costs and fees.

They will contact you in the coming weeks, we advise you respond to them as to ignore this could lead to legal action.

Your case will no longer be with us from the 15th July 2025, and we will forward all evidence to our Prosecutions team and British Transport Police.

Please note:  West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.

Kind regards,

Investigator ID X

Fraud and Investigations Manager
~~~
This reads to me as @Haywain being completely right:
- With regards to the date mentioned in the original email, the 15th (date of handover to Prosecutions) will be past the 6 month mark, so to me this suggests they aren’t somehow pursuing a byelaw offence that i was unaware of (which was what was getting so worked up about)
- Also they haven’t given any adequate disclosure, a charge hasn’t popped up, etc.
- Finally, connected to all this, they’ve ‘given’ me ANOTHER WEEK to ‘step on a rake’.

If I’m misunderstanding any of these then let me know.

Finally, I assume if they do contact me the BTP will send a letter? I moved address at the end of June and i’m assuming WMT only have my old address. Would it be worth setting up a postal redirect for 3 months?

Cheers again

As a general rule a postal redirect is a good idea. For various reasons in life you don’t want post to you going to old addresses.

 

[odetoboy]

As a general rule a postal redirect is a good idea. For various reasons in life you don’t want post to you going to old addresses.

true, i’ll set that up now.