Effect of HS2's previous iterations on crew changes

[A S Leib]

If HS2 had fully gone ahead with newly built lines to Wigan and York, could crew changes at Preston and Newcastle been eliminated, or would journey times still have been too long for that? I know it's not massively common, but two of the 50+ minute delays I've had in the past year have been because of a need to wait for train crew at Preston or Edinburgh, and although better reliability of HS2 has come up as a benefit (newer infrastructure) I don't remember train crew management being mentioned at any point (I'm not saying that it hasn't). So could HS2 have improved the situation?

 

[irish_rail]

If HS2 had fully gone ahead with newly built lines to Wigan and York, could crew changes at Preston and Newcastle been eliminated, or would journey times still have been too long for that? I know it's not massively common, but two of the 50+ minute delays I've had in the past year have been because of a need to wait for train crew at Preston or Edinburgh, and although better reliability of HS2 has come up as a benefit (newer infrastructure) I don't remember train crew management being mentioned at any point (I'm not saying that it hasn't). So could HS2 have improved the situation?

Unlikely as the Dft seem to prefer multiple crew changes compared with the older way of having one crew work a train throughout. It's pretty controversial as pretty much anyone with railway experience knows having one driver and TM work an entire service is more reliable and productive, but some in Dft stick to their guns that changing crew 3 times on route is somehow better for everyone (it really isn't.)

 

[yorkie]

Unlikely as the Dft seem to prefer multiple crew changes compared with the older way of having one crew work a train throughout. It's pretty controversial as pretty much anyone with railway experience knows having one driver and TM work an entire service is more reliable and productive, but some in Dft stick to their guns that changing crew 3 times on route is somehow better for everyone (it really isn't.)

Yes DfT did encourage that, but are you sure it's still the case?

I thought lessons had been learnt and this is being reversed on TPE? Is that not the case?

 

[irish_rail]

Yes DfT did encourage that, but are you sure it's still the case?

I thought lessons had been learnt and this is being reversed on TPE? Is that not the case?

It may very well be although I haven't heard of any movement on TPE drivers re learning old routes, but am happy to be corrected by someone Northern based. On GWR admittedly it does seem that perhaps they realise an error was made, with the new drivers at Plymouth learning Reading and likely soon to learn Paddington , so maybe lessons have been learned, but I won't hold my breath just yet, when we still have turns that involve driving from Plymouth to Westbury, to allow a Reading driver to take over, whilst the Plymouth driver then travels on the cushions onto London! Bonkers, and all an attempt to break up the service crewing as much as possible, but hoping that in the longer term this crazy practice will cease, and you will get one driver from Plymouth to London or Liverpool to Newcastle or whatever....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The plan for HS2 Euston-Scotland trains was for double set trains to split/join at Carlisle, with single sets on to Glasgow/Edinburgh.
Rolling stock (ECS/maintenance) would also have been based just north of the border.
So under that scenario Carlisle would likely have become a significant crew change location.
But that went out of the window when the Golborne link was canned, and now even the Lichfield-Crewe section is also canned.
So I guess Preston will remain the crew change point, albeit with something like a 20-minute shorter journey time to London on Phase 1.
An OOC terminus would add some complication for train crewing and replenishment, of course.
No doubt Avanti (as prospective operator) are on it.