ECS Movements that should be passenger trains

[Future]

Hello all, have you ever encountered some peculiar empty stock movements that should be run as passenger trains? I’ll start us off: Castle Class sets that terminate at Truro in the early morning/late evening then run ECS all the way back to Long Rock at Penzance. Really this should be run as a passenger service, seems like a missed opportunity by GWR

 

[Peter0124]

The LNER ECS both ways between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central during the afternoon

 

[Watershed]

Hello all, have you ever encountered some peculiar empty stock movements that should be run as passenger trains? I’ll start us off: Castle Class sets that terminate at Truro in the early morning/late evening then run ECS all the way back to Long Rock at Penzance. Really this should be run as a passenger service, seems like a missed opportunity by GWR

Do these have a guard passing on them? GWR have guards' depots at Par and Plymouth so it's quite possible that there isn't a guard available for part or all of the journey.

I think there therefore needs to be a distinction drawn between ECSs which could be made passenger services 'for free' and those which would carry a cost in terms of traincrew. There are certainly some ECSs that would not cost any traincrew to introduce.

Even where it would be 'free', the reasons for not making them passenger services are typically:

• It gives flexibility in case of engineering works (e.g. if there are cyclical works requiring diversions via different routes on certain weeks, or outstabling), meaning that the TOC doesn't need to arrange alternative transport.
• There would be little demand for passenger services, at typically very quiet times of day (very early/late in the day). Yet they would still count towards delay/cancellation statistics whenever disrupted, in the same way as a busy service.
• Such trains often have long non-stop runs, out of keeping with the usual pattern of services. So if you made them passenger services, you'd end up overcarrying lots of passengers who didn't pay attention to the calling pattern.
• Having them as ECSs allows late-running passenger services to be prioritised, without incurring liability for Delay Repay.
• The Network Rail track access charges are higher for passenger services than ECSs, and low loadings may mean that the revenue doesn't even cover this additional cost.
• ECSs can run on goods lines as a matter of course - passenger services cannot, without specific authority. This limits the options available in terms of paths/overtaking/regulating services.

Obviously, some of those reasons hold up to more scrutiny than others!

The LNER ECS both ways between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central during the afternoon

These are driver training runs, and hence do not have a guard. They also only run when required, so there is no regularity to them and you couldn't advertise them as a normal service.

 

[jfollows]

Similar discussion started 15 May in https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/why-cant-some-ecs-movements-be-opened-to-the-public.231768/

 

[Ken H]

5H81 0607 Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. to Ribblehead Sats only. Stop Hellifield, Settle and Horton. Good for early morning walkers. Only in summer.

 

[berneyarms]

Hello all, have you ever encountered some peculiar empty stock movements that should be run as passenger trains? I’ll start us off: Castle Class sets that terminate at Truro in the early morning/late evening then run ECS all the way back to Long Rock at Penzance. Really this should be run as a passenger service, seems like a missed opportunity by GWR

I cannot see any Castle Class operated services that are scheduled to terminate/start at Truro in the manner you suggest, having looked at Realtime Trains.

I suspect you mean the Class 150 sets to/from Long Rock that operate the Newquay and Falmouth branches.

The only GWR ECS workings on the mainline through Truro are:
07:43 Long Rock - Truro (Sun) (Falmouth branch Class 150) (There is a service train 16 mins later)
21:35 Par - Long Rock (Sun) (Newquay branch Class 150) (There is a service trains 25 mins later)
22:24 Par - Long Rock (Mon-Fri) (Newquay branch Class 150) (There are service trains 14 mins later and 19 mins earlier)
23:59 Truro - Long Rock (Mon-Fri) (Falmouth branch Class 150) (There is a service train 4 mins earlier)
23:38 Truro - Long Rock (Sat) (Falmouth branch Class 150)
23:21 Truro - Long Rock (Sun) (Falmouth branch Class 150)

Virtually all of these have an alternative service in operation for passengers shortly before or after them. Only two of the services which are both very late on Saturday and Sunday nights have no alternative service within 30 minutes.

As others point out these are driver only operated.

Hardly the end of the world.

 

[Taunton]

The DLR used to run trains going in/out of service at the Beckton depot in service, which formed some convenient services at odd times, such as from Lewisham through Canary wharf to the Beckton line at about 18.30, which some office staff actually used to deliberately aim for to avoid changing twice (and thus getting a seat throughout). However as such end-peak services inevitably tended to be sometimes a couple of minutes behind schedule, they impacted the punctuality statistics, so were changed to empty stock, and now just trundle behind other services at the various stops. Nothing was saved.

 

[dk1]

Hello all, have you ever encountered some peculiar empty stock movements that should be run as passenger trains? I’ll start us off: Castle Class sets that terminate at Truro in the early morning/late evening then run ECS all the way back to Long Rock at Penzance. Really this should be run as a passenger service, seems like a missed opportunity by GWR

Aren’t they DOO though? Couldn’t operate as a passenger service if so.

 

[30907]

5H81 0607 Skipton Broughton Rd C.S. to Ribblehead Sats only. Stop Hellifield, Settle and Horton. Good for early morning walkers. Only in summer.

A possibility for Three Peaks people from Skipton wanting to beat the crowd on the next train 45min later
At least it is more-or-less guaranteed to run as booked, with a guard, and not start at Carlisle (as it does SX)!