ECML Over running engineering work (19 January)

[Potterlad]

The ECML is severely disrupted this morning due to over running engineering work. The problem is between Welham Green and WGC. There was no indication of issues yesterday afternoon when I was watching the work going on just south of Welham Green. The engineering train was on site all day yesterday and seemed to move off around 4pm, with what looked like a tamper on the down slow at around 6pm (hard to tell as all I could see was the lights).

Is there any indication what the problem causing the over run is? I'm due to travel from Welham Green tomorrow and hoping that there will be some sort of service running, rather than the complete abandonment of the local service that we have today!!

 

[Table 25]

While the disruption is, of course, unwelcome, I am pleased to see LNER services to Kings Cross (which are now set down only under normal circumstances) appearing on the "Stevenage Live Departures" on the National Rail app. I have not seen this previously at times of disruption.

 

[KatieLouLou]

The ECML is severely disrupted this morning due to over running engineering work. The problem is between Welham Green and WGC. There was no indication of issues yesterday afternoon when I was watching the work going on just south of Welham Green. The engineering train was on site all day yesterday and seemed to move off around 4pm, with what looked like a tamper on the down slow at around 6pm (hard to tell as all I could see was the lights).

Is there any indication what the problem causing the over run is? I'm due to travel from Welham Green tomorrow and hoping that there will be some sort of service running, rather than the complete abandonment of the local service that we have today!!

Issue with the tamper - line wasn't tamped. Therefore not handed back for traffic.

 

[rmHawk765]

Surprised they cancelled so many services instead of diverting via Hertford...

 

[milooo]

Surprised they cancelled so many services instead of diverting via Hertford...

Fallen tree in the Watton area according to X

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There is a tree blocking the railway between Stevenage and Hertford North and all lines are blocked.

 

[rmHawk765]

Fallen tree in the Watton area according to X

Stevenage to Moorgate is running fine though, at most 3-5 min delays. Only two Hertford trains cancelled today, unless this just happened.

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Nevermind, it appears we are done for today. This is currently the latest train into London, I imagine the following ones will be cancelled.

 

[Mattplans]

Ironic the disruption that was pre-announced yesterday on the Brighton Main Line didn't really take place, but overrunning works on the ECML did!

 

[ainsworth74]

Fallen tree in the Watton area according to X

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Never rains but it pours...

 

[rmHawk765]

Hertford trains both directions now being cancelled. Why not just terminate at Gordon Hill/Hertford if they're not diverting anything anyway?

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Ironic the disruption that was pre-announced yesterday on the Brighton Main Line didn't really take place, but overrunning works on the ECML did!

Overrunning works are far, far too common on the ECML South.

 

[bramling]

Hertford trains both directions now being cancelled. Why not just terminate at Gordon Hill/Hertford if they're not diverting anything anyway?

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Overrunning works are far, far too common the ECML South.

Many Hertford trains have crew reliefs at Stevenage (with, in typical GTR fashion, drivers having extensive “pass” journeys to/from there from their depots). In an ideal world you’d have all Hertford services crewed from the London end with the exception of the few services which go to/from Letchworth for stabling.

It is this crewing complexity which seems to be part of the reason why GTR is unmanageable during disruption.

 

[rmHawk765]

Many Hertford trains have crew reliefs at Stevenage (with, in typical GTR fashion, drivers having extensive “pass” journeys to/from there from their depots). In an ideal world you’d have all Hertford services crewed from the London end with the exception of the few services which go to/from Letchworth for stabling.

It is this crewing complexity which seems to be part of the reason why GTR is unmanageable during disruption.

I see. I imagine that nothing will be done about this issue no matter if GTR is actually employing more drivers or not...

 

[GordonT]

The King's Cross area rail diagram real-time map with its mish-mash of services, bottle-neck and pinch-points more than any other has been regular compulsive viewing for me on numerous occasions over many weeks. I'm just so very glad that I don't rely on the services which it embraces.

 

[Silver Cobra]

As seems to be the norm these days, the Cambridge-Brighton service has been major casualty on the Thameslink side. Though that does free up what limited capacity there is for the Peterborough-Horsham service (the Cambridge branch having alternative services, whereas the stations between Hitchin and Peterborough do not), and from a cursory glance I've had at the departure boards at Stevenage and Biggleswade it appears that service is running relatively to time currently.

 

[Magdalia]

Many Hertford trains have crew reliefs at Stevenage (with, in typical GTR fashion, drivers having extensive “pass” journeys to/from there from their depots). In an ideal world you’d have all Hertford services crewed from the London end with the exception of the few services which go to/from Letchworth for stabling.

The Hitchin drivers that start their shifts working the early morning ECS moves out of Letchworth finish their shifts in the middle of the day.

The Hitchin drivers that finish their shifts working the late evening ECS moves into Letchworth start their shifts in the middle of the day.

In the middle of the day the Hitchin drivers that started their shifts working the early morning ECS moves out of Letchworth can get relieved by the Hitchin drivers that will be finishing their shifts working the late evening ECS moves into Letchworth.

The most sensible place to do that is Stevenage. Hitchin-Stevenage is not an extensive journey.

 

[Potterlad]

Issue with the tamper - line wasn't tamped. Therefore not handed back for traffic.

Thanks for the update. The tamper has arrived on site at Welham Green about 30 mins ago with associated workmen and has set off tamping towards WGC.

Has it taken until 3pm to re-start tamping as the crew would have been out of hours from last night or due to repairs to the tamper taking time? Presumably there would not be a spare tamper at WGC on a Sunday evening when they are probably all out in use at other possessions around the area?

One thing I did notice was that the tamper was showing red running lights at each end. I would have expected for it to have white lights in the direction of running or is this normal for operating tampers?

 

[rmHawk765]

As seems to be the norm these days, the Cambridge-Brighton service has been major casualty on the Thameslink side. Though that does free up what limited capacity there is for the Peterborough-Horsham service (the Cambridge branch having alternative services, whereas the stations between Hitchin and Peterborough do not), and from a cursory glance I've had at the departure boards at Stevenage and Biggleswade it appears that service is running relatively to time currently.

I still don't really get why Peterborough to Horsham even exists, and from what I've seen I honestly think it is consistently worse than Cambridge to Brighton - make that make sense.

 

[bramling]

The Hitchin drivers that start their shifts working the early morning ECS moves out of Letchworth finish their shifts in the middle of the day.

The Hitchin drivers that finish their shifts working the late evening ECS moves into Letchworth start their shifts in the middle of the day.

In the middle of the day the Hitchin drivers that started their shifts working the early morning ECS moves out of Letchworth can get relieved by the Hitchin drivers that will be finishing their shifts working the late evening ECS moves into Letchworth.

The most sensible place to do that is Stevenage. Hitchin-Stevenage is not an extensive journey.

Three class 717s stable at Letchworth, so that's a miniscule number. There's certainly more reliefs at Stevenage than that. This would be less of an issue if the off-peak 4tph service was running.

 

[Segedunum]

Thanks for the update. The tamper has arrived on site at Welham Green about 30 mins ago with associated workmen and has set off tamping towards WGC.

Has it taken until 3pm to re-start tamping as the crew would have been out of hours from last night or due to repairs to the tamper taking time? Presumably there would not be a spare tamper at WGC on a Sunday evening when they are probably all out in use at other possessions around the area?

The replacement Tamper was sourced from Peterborough. The part required to repair the broken down one was apparently considerably further away than that!

Replacement was moved to the general area (Potters Bar) around 13:15.

 

[bramling]

I still don't really get why Peterborough to Horsham even exists, and from what I've seen I honestly think it is consistently worse than Cambridge to Brighton - make that make sense.

I don't know, Cambridge-Brighton is pretty flaky at times. It's very common for trains to miss stops or be reversed at Letchworth (or occasionally Royston), and the whole service gets pulled at the slightest hint of trouble. The reason why it gets noticed less is because there are alternatives, albeit this isn't without problems - as the Cambridge-Brighton services represent a significant amount of the overall capacity between London, Stevenage and Cambridge, and the alternative stopping service is slower and with shorter trains, plus there are also hour gaps between Letchworth and Cambridge at certain off-peak times.

With Horsham-Peterborough it doesn't tend to get deliberately pulled in entirety, so the unreliability is more apparent, especially at the Hitchin-Peterborough section doesn't have alternatives apart from the handful of peak extras.

 

[Stephen42]

Hertford trains both directions now being cancelled. Why not just terminate at Gordon Hill/Hertford if they're not diverting anything anyway?

That's what they've done. Two southbound departures where the trains ended up at Stevenage were cancelled, the one starting at Alexandra Palace went empty via Welwyn and the other stayed in the bay at Stevenage. All the rest got turned back at Hertford skipping one service keeping the drivers/unit on diagram. Northbound the units impacted southbound caused one cancellation (from one still in the bay) and one significantly delay (the via Welwyn diversion one).

Issue for the Hertford Loop was fixed and then back to normal service immediately as trains started running through at 15:40. Seems pretty sensible from a recovery perspective. Avoiding the skip to avoid two consecutive cancellations would lead to all the drivers being in different positions which might need to be resolved over the evening peak.

 

[rmHawk765]

This would be less of an issue if the off-peak 4tph service was running.

Will be interesting to see how it will work in Dec when this (should) return.

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That's what they've done. Two southbound departures where the trains ended up at Stevenage were cancelled, the one starting at Alexandra Palace went empty via Welwyn and the other stayed in the bay at Stevenage. All the rest got turned back at Hertford skipping one service keeping the drivers/unit on diagram. Northbound the units impacted southbound caused one cancellation (from one still in the bay) and one significantly delay (the via Welwyn diversion one).

Issue for the Hertford Loop was fixed and then back to normal service immediately as trains started running through at 15:40. Seems pretty sensible from a recovery perspective. Avoiding the skip to avoid two consecutive cancellations would lead to all the drivers being in different positions which might need to be resolved over the evening peak.

Alright, I do think I spoke a bit too soon, apologies for that.

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I don't know, Cambridge-Brighton is pretty flaky at times. It's very common for trains to miss stops or be reversed at Letchworth (or occasionally Royston), and the whole service gets pulled at the slightest hint of trouble. The reason why it gets noticed less is because there are alternatives, albeit this isn't without problems - as the Cambridge-Brighton services represent a significant amount of the overall capacity between London, Stevenage and Cambridge, and the alternative stopping service is slower and with shorter trains, plus there are also hour gaps between Letchworth and Cambridge at certain off-peak times.

I will agree that it is ridiculous that the 'main' fast service to Cambridge is rather unreliable, but if we have to introduce contained routes as 'fallbacks', the TL service being there in the first place becomes useless...

With Horsham-Peterborough it doesn't tend to get deliberately pulled in entirety, so the unreliability is more apparent, especially at the Hitchin-Peterborough section doesn't have alternatives apart from the handful of peak extras.

It's fairly common for a couple of Horshams to be outright cancelled on multiple days in a week, which is completely unacceptable when you consider the lack of any other service off-peak between Hitchin and Peterborough.

I do think the peak-only trains should stop at Sandy and Arlesey, I don't see the benefit of skipping them?

Moderator note: Discussion regarding potential timetable changes has been moved to this thread:

Could Sandy and Arlesey be served by the peak additional services from King's Cross?

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ecml-over-running-engineering-work-19-january.297549 I do think the peak-only trains should stop at Sandy and Arlesey, I don't see the benefit of skipping them?

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