East West rail starting date?

[btdrawer]

Yes, but first the trains have to start running.

I think the crux here is whether Chiltern are saying that trains aren't running _because_ of Winslow, which doesn't make sense. But I don't know if they're actually saying that. I guess at any rate, it's well known that the problem is really the door arrangements.

 

[800002]

I think the crux here is whether Chiltern are saying that trains aren't running _because_ of Winslow, which doesn't make sense. But I don't know if they're actually saying that. I guess at any rate, it's well known that the problem is really the door arrangements.

Winslow does seem like a convient distraction, doesn't it.

 

[Djgr]

One thing that has always seemed a little odd about the 196 situation (as we have exchanged before) is that East West Rail ran a tender for 12-14 three car units in 2020 and ended up with 6 two car units that were ordered in 2018 - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...k-procurement-updates-non-speculative.211423/

And ultimately highlights the folly of the balkanisation of the railway.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Any increase in DOO (including new services) is seen as eroding the security of existing guards in the long term.

That's the big problem, the Unions don't want any increase in DOO because it just makes their position more untenable. No one can really suggest safety as DOO is running safely on many trains throughout the country now.

 

[Cach17]

If I recall, the last thread about the Oxford to MK section of EWR got locked precisely because it was devolving into an argument about DOO/RMT.

 

[weeklycommuter]

I think the crux here is whether Chiltern are saying that trains aren't running _because_ of Winslow, which doesn't make sense. But I don't know if they're actually saying that. I guess at any rate, it's well known that the problem is really the door arrangements.

The following news report from the BBC dated 19 November 2025 states that it is the dispute over driver only operation that is delaying the start of the Oxford to Milton Keynes passenger train service.

East West Rail train door row could see delay to launch

The service on the new line operated by Chiltern Railways was due to start in December.

www.bbc.co.uk

East West Rail train door row may see launch delayed
Mariam Issimdar Published 19 November 2025
The launch of a new £7bn railway faces being delayed because of a row over who will control the opening and closing of carriage doors.
The BBC understands train operator Chiltern Railways is in a standoff with the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union, which represents train guards, over how East West Rail services between Oxford and Milton Keynes will run.
The RMT said the operator wants train drivers to open and close the doors at stations, with no guards required.
Passenger trains were scheduled to start running between Oxford and Milton Keynes for the first time in nearly 60 years by the end of December.
There is now no official timeline for when the trains will begin running, despite work on the new line - the first phase of East West Rail - being completed in December 2024.

An RMT spokesman said: "On Chiltern and East West Rail, we can confirm that management have written to the union spelling out their plans for DOO.
"We are seeking talks and RMT's standing policy is that we are opposed to DOO."
Eddie Dempsey, RMT General Secretary, added: "A guaranteed safety critical second person onboard a train service is essential for performing a range of functions and responding appropriately to potentially dangerous incidents.
"It is important we establish with any employer an agreed method of dispatching the train with the necessary safety critical skills and duties incorporated within the role of the second onboard crew member."
He called for a "clear commitment" from Chiltern on the issue.
A source at train drivers' union Aslef told the PA news agency it believed "there should be no extension" of driver-only operation on Britain's railways, as it was "clearly not safe" for some services.

 

[iamraymond]

If I recall, the last thread about the Oxford to MK section of EWR got locked precisely because it was devolving into an argument about DOO/RMT.

There is no argument to be had, it's borderline hilarious that they are concerned about the loss of jobs that didn't exist in the first place.

 

[MontyP]

That’s down to our wonderful DfT

And our wonderful trade unions

 

[nuneatonmark]

If I recall, the last thread about the Oxford to MK section of EWR got locked precisely because it was devolving into an argument about DOO/RMT.

I had a long online discussion about DOO with various union members against the increase in DOO operation.

They cited safety as being the critical reason why DOO should not be extended, examples cited were driver illness, incidents such as collisions and anti-social behaviour.

I couldn't find any independent evidence online that DOO routes were any less safe, so their safety concerns seem to focus on safety 'incidents' that don't happen very often, e.g. accidents or events that one might say are more 'customer service' related.

Personally, it seems to make sense to have a second person on board, as long as they are visible and useful, to make train travel more appealing and improve overall customer service.

As is usual, the 'customer gets caught between a rock, the unions, and the DfT, a hard place.

 

[btdrawer]

In the case of Chiltern, the argument seems wrong, because nobody seriously thinks that there are significant safety issues on the route between Marylebone and Banbury/Aylesbury, which have been DOO for decades.

 

[Kingham West]

Why can it not be staffed from Banbury, where drivers and staff are competent at DOO?

Just forget Bletchley Depot until a new one is built at Newton Longville.

 

[dk1]

Why can it not be staffed from Banbury, where drivers and staff are competent at DOO.
Just forget Bletchley Depot till new one is built at Newton Longville.

Because it would be an extension of already agreed DOO routes which is something ASLEF have opposed on many occasions.

 

[Kingham West]

Could the who east west rail be handed to another operator, who would operate, with a contract like the Elizabeth Line , which has DOO

 

[weeklycommuter]

Because it would be an extension of already agreed DOO routes which is something ASLEF have opposed on many occasions.

AIUI this is the hard reality. Rail passengers just want the train service to start running. As it is a new route and a new service the train operator and the Department for Transport (DfT) cannot rely on any existing driver only operation agreements to require train drivers to operate the trains on this new service with driver only operation. The train services could run without second onboard staff but they cannot run without drivers so if the drivers will not agree to drive the trains with driver only operation for this new service the train service cannot start running without second onboard staff. Views about whether this new train service can or should be run with driver only operation are academic.

Although it is not yet part of DfT Operator Ltd (DFTO) I assume Chiltern is nevertheless following instructions from the DfT and will not agree to the service running with second onboard staff without the agreement of the DfT. Like other former franchise operators it has been effectively controlled by the DfT for several years now.

I guess that if this new service were to be run by a genuinely private sector train operator, such as an open access train operator, the train operator would do a deal with the train drivers to enable the train service to start. If the train drivers insisted on having second onboard staff the private sector train operator would run the train service with second onboard staff as the private sector train operator would need to immediately start making money from ticket sales.

 

[JamesT]

Could the who east west rail be handed to another operator, who would operate, with a contract like the Elizabeth Line , which has DOO

I don’t see how a different operator would change the fundamental issue that the unions refuse to accept more DOO. Chiltern at least started off from the position that some of their routes are DOO, so you would have expected it would be an easier negotiation than a TOC that doesn’t at all.

 

[dk1]

AIUI this is the hard reality. Rail passengers just want the train service to start running. As it is a new route and a new service the train operator and the Department for Transport (DfT) cannot rely on any existing driver only operation agreements to require train drivers to operate the trains on this new service with driver only operation. The train services could run without second onboard staff but they cannot run without drivers so if the drivers will not agree to drive the trains with driver only operation for this new service the train service cannot start running without second onboard staff. Views about whether this new train service can or should be run with driver only operation are academic.

Although it is not yet part of DfT Operator Ltd (DFTO) I assume Chiltern is nevertheless following instructions from the DfT and will not agree to the service running with second onboard staff without the agreement of the DfT. Like other former franchise operators it has been effectively controlled by the DfT for several years now.

I guess that if this new service were to be run by a genuinely private sector train operator, such as an open access train operator, the train operator would do a deal with the train drivers to enable the train service to start. If the train drivers insisted on having second onboard staff the private sector train operator would run the train service with second onboard staff as the private sector train operator would need to immediately start making money from ticket sales.

Yes it appears the DfT are very much pulling the strings. An old style TOC would‘ve hastily arranged a second person to get things moving and I expect Chiltern would like to do so now as we are just in stalemate here. I wouldn’t imagine any OA operator would be interested enough at this stage as subsidy will inevitably be required.

 

[Adsy125]

Are the new drivers effectively refusing the fulfil the contract they signed when recruited, as I assume that stated that DOO would be the mode of operation?

 

[dk1]

Are the new drivers effectively refusing the fulfil the contract they signed when recruited, as I assume that stated that DOO would be the mode of operation?

I would have thought they like most drivers at a TOC take on the T&Cs of other drivers, Chiltern in this case, and it’s then for the operator to negotiate with ASLEF.

 

[Cowley]

With thanks to @Zomboid for the link.
This article suggests a start date, but for the time being we’ll leave the thread closed until further developments.

Date set for launch of long delayed £1.3bn East West Rail line from Oxford

A date has been set for the long awaited £1.3bn East West Rail line from Oxford to Milton Keynes.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

The Government says trains from Oxford to Milton Keynes are being lined up to appear in the December rail timetable.

In a written statement, rail minister Lord Peter Hendy said: "Chiltern worked with Network Rail, the Department for Transport and other operators on the December 2026 timetable and services have been timetabled between Oxford, Winslow, Bletchley and Milton Keynes.