DSB buys 16 cab cars from Talgo

[andersj]

DSB has awarded a contract without tender to Talgo for 16 cab cars. They will together with an unknown number of extra coaches from the framework agreement double the amount of Talgo trainsets. DSB has already bought and received 16 Siemens Vectron locomotives, as it was initially planned to run the 8 Talgo formations in a sandwich formation between Copenhagen/Aarhus and Hamburg.

The additional 8 formations will be shorter than the ones initially ordered and will be used for national InterCity services, because of the tight rolling stock situation and the already announced delay of the Alstom Coradia Streams (IC5) by 6 months.

There is a 30 day stand still period on this award. DSB argues that no-one but Talgo will be able to deliver cab cars for the Talgo formations, therefore the contract can be awarded without tendering.

It is also rumored that DSB will get a big discount on the coaches from the framework agreement, because the delivery of the initial order is delayed by one year.

Link to the contract award notice on Ted (danish): https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:202091-2023:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0

 

[jamesontheroad]

If the order of 16 Vectrons is unchanged to propel both the “international” (Hamburg) and “national” trains, does this mean both fleets will now be push-pull with a single locomotive at one end?

 

[XAM2175]

If there are order of 16 Vectrons is unchanged to propel both the “international” (Hamburg) and “national” trains, does this mean both fleets will now be push-pull with a single locomotive at one end?

I'd been thinking the top-and-tail Vectrons would be a bit excessive anyway.

 

[andersj]

DSB has confirmed they will double their order, so the new transets will not be shorter. They will all be 15 cars long.

The cab cars will be delivered at the end of 2026 or at the beginning of 2027. According to DSB the cab cars for DB's ICE L trainsets are delayed until the beginning of 2026.

 

[popeter45]

DSB has confirmed they will double their order, so the new transets will not be shorter. They will all be 15 cars long.

The cab cars will be delivered at the end of 2026 or at the beginning of 2027. According to DSB the cab cars for DB's ICE L trainsets are delayed until the beginning of 2026.

does that delay DB's ICE L's or is it possible to form them up temporarily without as with how DSB's sets were originally going to be?

 

[andersj]

Now with press releases
DSB: https://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/presse/pr...lere-nye-vogne-til-den-internationale-trafik/
Talgo: https://www.talgo.com/-/denmark-confirms-confidence-talgo-additional-order

 

[popeter45]

with the new carriages and locomotives i would love if long term they could extend a few as Eurocity to a few places south of Hamburg, one to Cologne and one to Berlin would be nice

 

[JonasB]

with the new carriages and locomotives i would love if long term they could extend a few as Eurocity to a few places south of Hamburg, one to Cologne and one to Berlin would be nice

I'd love to see the return of the Copenhagen-Berlin trains. And Copenhagen-Amsterdam would also be great!

 

[andersj]

It's more realistic that they get extended from Copenhagen to Gothenburg and Oslo, but it will require leased Vectrons with a DK-SE approval.

České Dráhy is planing a daily connection Prague-Berlin-Hamburg-Copenhagen from December 2025 with their new Siemens Viaggio Comfort coaches in cooperation with DB and DSB.

Copenhagen-Amsterdam could be a nice connection (which could also get Hamburg a direct connection with Amsterdam) but sadly the DSB Vectrons can only run in Denmark and Germany. So here they will also need to lease locomotives.

As a bonus, Talgo has release footage of the first finished coach for DSB. It's the same seats as in the ICE L, but with reading lights attached to the seat. The tables has also got foldable "wings" where the tables in ICE L are smaller.

 

[JonasB]

It's more realistic that they get extended from Copenhagen to Gothenburg and Oslo, but it will require leased Vectrons with a DK-SE approval.

I've heard rumours about that and really hope that doesn't become reality. Copenhagen-Oslo is a long trip with the current infrastructure and it really needs a bit of a premium product to be able to attract passengers. And from a Swedish/Norwegian point of view, the Danish Talgos feels a bit like glorified regional trains.

České Dráhy is planing a daily connection Prague-Berlin-Hamburg-Copenhagen from December 2025 with their new Siemens Viaggio Comfort coaches in cooperation with DB and DSB.

They are, and that is great. But Copenhagen-Berlin should really be more frequent than once daily. Especially once the tunnel opens.

Copenhagen-Amsterdam could be a nice connection (which could also get Hamburg a direct connection with Amsterdam) but sadly the DSB Vectrons can only run in Denmark and Germany. So here they will also need to lease locomotives.

As long as there is a will, that is a very easy problem to solve.

 

[Gloster]

Personally, I would think that Frankfurt via Köln would be a better choice, even though it is only about twenty minutes less journey time.

 

[Austriantrain]

And from a Swedish/Norwegian point of view, the Danish Talgos feels a bit like glorified regional trains.

Why so?

 

[popeter45]

Personally, I would think that Frankfurt via Köln would be a better choice, even though it is only about twenty minutes less journey time.

remeber these cant take the high speed line so getting to Frankfurt would prob actually be faster via hannover

 

[Gloster]

remeber these cant take the high speed line so getting to Frankfurt would prob actually be faster via hannover

I was rather thinking of all the connections that would be available and the call at Frankfurt Airport.

 

[Austriantrain]

I was rather thinking of all the connections that would be available and the call at Frankfurt Airport.

Which is a good point, but journey time would not be attractive from Denmark when going via Köln and then trundling down the Rhine.

 

[Richard Scott]

I've heard rumours about that and really hope that doesn't become reality. Copenhagen-Oslo is a long trip with the current infrastructure and it really needs a bit of a premium product to be able to attract passengers. And from a Swedish/Norwegian point of view, the Danish Talgos feels a bit like glorified regional trains.

Talgos likely to be a lot more comfortable than the Flirts that Norway are procuring for route up to Bodoe.

 

[duesselmartin]

Talgo previously build excellent night trains for DB.
As it is not a unit with unser floor motors, I certainly expect better comfort.

Mind you, I do like the Girunos.

 

[JonasB]

Why so?

The big reason is lack of food service onboard. For a longer trip, like Oslo-Copenhagen, I'd expect to be able to buy food onboard, and not just be limited to a coffee machine and a vending machine that sells snacks. There are also many other reasons that Danish trains, like the IC3, feels very much like regional trains. But hopefully DSB have solved a few of those issues with the Talgos.

 

[Richard Scott]

The big reason is lack of food service onboard. For a longer trip, like Oslo-Copenhagen, I'd expect to be able to buy food onboard, and not just be limited to a coffee machine and a vending machine that sells snacks. There are also many other reasons that Danish trains, like the IC3, feels very much like regional trains. But hopefully DSB have solved a few of those issues with the Talgos.

Do the Talgos include a buffet car? Agree with what you're saying, old Copenhagen to Hamburg route was fine when used the ferry as had a chance to buy refreshments then or if a DB ICE unit was used as buffet was sometimes open.

 

[JonasB]

Do the Talgos include a buffet car? Agree with what you're saying, old Copenhagen to Hamburg route was fine when used the ferry as had a chance to buy refreshments then or if a DB ICE unit was used as buffet was sometimes open.

No, there will be "a vending machine for coffee, tea, cold drinks, and snacks." https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/dsb-talgo-international-coach-contract/

Personally I don't mind under floor motors, but if that is an issue the X2000 would be perfect for Copenhagen-Oslo. Decent food offers onboard, and being a tilting train it might reduce journey time a bit.

 

[duesselmartin]

So the problem is not Talgo or Stadler but the specs ordered.

 

[JonasB]

So the problem is not Talgo or Stadler but the specs ordered.

Correct

 

[Austriantrain]

No, there will be "a vending machine for coffee, tea, cold drinks, and snacks." https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/dsb-talgo-international-coach-contract/

Personally I don't mind under floor motors, but if that is an issue the X2000 would be perfect for Copenhagen-Oslo. Decent food offers onboard, and being a tilting train it might reduce journey time a bit.

The Talgos won‘t have underfloor motors.