Drunks allowed on planes?

[Howardh]

We all know those who have had a few to many are still being allowed to board planes, despite it being illegal to do so. I think that's in the hope that the airline can flog them more over-priced booze on the plane to boost profits at the expense of all the other passengers wanting a pleasant journey.
However, if a pax boarding was clearly drunk, and then went on to assault a passenger, could that passenger sue the airline? Has it ever been done?

 

[CC 72100]

One thing I wonder is could you request to move seats on the basis of another passenger's drunkenness?

I'm not suggesting from a comfort standpoint (although it may be clearly unpleasant), but from a safety one.

Say you're in the window seat of a standard 3-3 configured short/medium-haul plane. You have one (or two) drunks in the middle and or aisle seat next to you. In an emergency evacuation, are your chances of making a safe escape in quick time limited by drunk Dave and paralytic Paul who have to fumble their way out of their seats first?

It may be an extreme example, and I suppose an emergency where everyone is orderly able to exit their rows would probably mean that speed may be less decisive, but I do wonder where you stand if you requested a seat move on the grounds of safety?

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing I wonder is could you request to move seats on the basis of another passenger's drunkenness?

I'm not suggesting from a comfort standpoint (although it may be clearly unpleasant), but from a safety one.

Say you're in the window seat of a standard 3-3 configured short/medium-haul plane. You have one (or two) drunks in the middle and or aisle seat next to you. In an emergency evacuation, are your chances of making a safe escape in quick time limited by drunk Dave and paralytic Paul who have to fumble their way out of their seats first?

It may be an extreme example, and I suppose an emergency where everyone is orderly able to exit their rows would probably mean that speed may be less decisive, but I do wonder where you stand if you requested a seat move on the grounds of safety?

You can request a seat move on whatever grounds you like and the response will usually be yes, unless the flight is full or it's a seat that would come at a higher price (and I think some low costs can sell upgrades to e.g. the exit row on board). Indeed plenty of people do it without asking once boarding is complete.

 

[hexagon789]

One thing I wonder is could you request to move seats on the basis of another passenger's drunkenness?

I'm not suggesting from a comfort standpoint (although it may be clearly unpleasant), but from a safety one.

Say you're in the window seat of a standard 3-3 configured short/medium-haul plane. You have one (or two) drunks in the middle and or aisle seat next to you. In an emergency evacuation, are your chances of making a safe escape in quick time limited by drunk Dave and paralytic Paul who have to fumble their way out of their seats first?

It may be an extreme example, and I suppose an emergency where everyone is orderly able to exit their rows would probably mean that speed may be less decisive, but I do wonder where you stand if you requested a seat move on the grounds of safety?

It is an offence to be drunk on an aircraft in the UK.

Penalty is £5,000 and up to 2 years imprisonment.

Those found guilty can also be billed disruption costs up to £10,000 by the relevant airline.

 

[Howardh]

R/e moving seats, yes I reckon that's no problem if there are some available, but in some cases - particularly half-empty planes, they might refuse or ask you to move back on landing due to the balance of the plane. An insider will either cionfirm this, or wipe it away as an old wive's tale, however it did happen to me once when - during the collapse of Thomas Cook, they (Iberia) put us on an aircraft with no pre-booked seats, ther must have been only 30 or so of us, and there was quite a performance by the stewardess to make sure everyone was spread out and balanced!! Thought at one stage they were gonna weigh us!! Happy to report everyone complied and there was zero drunken behaviour!

 

[edwin_m]

R/e moving seats, yes I reckon that's no problem if there are some available, but in some cases - particularly half-empty planes, they might refuse or ask you to move back on landing due to the balance of the plane. An insider will either cionfirm this, or wipe it away as an old wive's tale, however it did happen to me once when - during the collapse of Thomas Cook, they (Iberia) put us on an aircraft with no pre-booked seats, ther must have been only 30 or so of us, and there was quite a performance by the stewardess to make sure everyone was spread out and balanced!! Thought at one stage they were gonna weigh us!! Happy to report everyone complied and there was zero drunken behaviour!

I was on an A320 when they found out after parking that the jetbridge wouldn't work. De-boarding was via the rear exit but by rows, with those in the front having to remain seated. Appearently it could have tipped over backwards if everyone had gone to the rear at the same time.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Crew POV:

Usually most drunk passengers appear okay until we get in the air. We spot them quite quickly as we can tell by their behaviour, we then limit any alcohol consumption by restricting the amount of alcohol sold onboard (usually to 1 per passenger)

We also keep a close eye on them to make sure they aren’t causing trouble or drinking their own alcohol

R/e moving seats, yes I reckon that's no problem if there are some available, but in some cases - particularly half-empty planes, they might refuse or ask you to move back on landing due to the balance of the plane. An insider will either cionfirm this, or wipe it away as an old wive's tale, however it did happen to me once when - during the collapse of Thomas Cook, they (Iberia) put us on an aircraft with no pre-booked seats, ther must have been only 30 or so of us, and there was quite a performance by the stewardess to make sure everyone was spread out and balanced!! Thought at one stage they were gonna weigh us!! Happy to report everyone complied and there was zero drunken behaviour!

RE this - we allow people to move after departure, but they have to go back for landing (it’s a weight and balance thing).

If we know the flight isn’t very full and someone asks, we just tell them they can move after departure.

 

[Howardh]

Crew POV:

Usually most drunk passengers appear okay until we get in the air. We spot them quite quickly as we can tell by their behaviour, we then limit any alcohol consumption by restricting the amount of alcohol sold onboard (usually to 1 per passenger)

We also keep a close eye on them to make sure they aren’t causing trouble or drinking their own alcohol


RE this - we allow people to move after departure, but they have to go back for landing (it’s a weight and balance thing).

If we know the flight isn’t very full and someone asks, we just tell them they can move after departure.

Thanks, I'm glad I'm not making it up!

 

[BeijingDave]

We all know those who have had a few to many are still being allowed to board planes, despite it being illegal to do so. I think that's in the hope that the airline can flog them more over-priced booze on the plane to boost profits at the expense of all the other passengers wanting a pleasant journey.
However, if a pax boarding was clearly drunk, and then went on to assault a passenger, could that passenger sue the airline? Has it ever been done?

At Manchester Airport T3 (where I regularly get the LHR shuttle from), the airport bar is plying people (particularly stag and football groups) with pints of Stella from early morning.

If the airline industry (as a whole) wanted to curtail the problem of drunkenness on flights, not allowing concessions that serve booze with breakfasts would be a good start. An upmarket brunch and coffee outlet (as they have in other airports I've been to recently such as CPH) in that central space would probably make just as much revenue in that space.

 

[Scotrail314209]

At Manchester Airport T3 (where I regularly get the LHR shuttle from), the airport bar is plying people (particularly stag and football groups) with pints of Stella from early morning.

If the airline industry (as a whole) wanted to curtail the problem of drunkenness on flights, not allowing concessions that serve booze with breakfasts would be a good start. An upmarket brunch and coffee outlet (as they have in other airports I've been to recently such as CPH) in that central space would probably make just as much revenue in that space.

Edinburgh is very much the same having a huge Wetherspoons in departures.

I don’t think airports would be keen to get rid of it since they probably bring quite a bit of money in.

 

[rmt4ever]

Edinburgh is very much the same having a huge Wetherspoons in departures.

I don’t think airports would be keen to get rid of it since they probably bring quite a bit of money in.

several morning pints in Wetherspoons is part of the ritual of morning flights!

 

[Lost property]

I was on an A320 when they found out after parking that the jetbridge wouldn't work. De-boarding was via the rear exit but by rows, with those in the front having to remain seated. Appearently it could have tipped over backwards if everyone had gone to the rear at the same time.

Well it's certainly possible, but far more likely on pure freight aircraft. We watched an Emery DC 8 demonstrate this one day ...a very graceful transition to a nose up attitude and "thunk !" sound when the rear fuselage impacted the ground.

Drunks on an aircraft are a PITA !...not only are they unpredictable, cause alarm and distress to other pax and C.C, but, they can happily damage the cabin furnishings and fittings. The only "good " aspect is they tend to get priority disembarkation ...in the company of as many large police officers who can get down the aisle.

Personally, much as I like a drink, not when flying. Soft drinks / water only. Cabin air cond. plus pressurisation, means you dehydrate and getting tanked up isn't going to help your metabolism

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, I never drink alcohol on or before a flight, it just makes me feel worse.

 

[Egg Centric]

If I'm going business - or even just happen to have lounge access for whatever reason - I am having as much free booze as humanely possible. Only exception is if I need to be sober later for some reason.

 

[BeijingDave]

That's something else that's annoying now at UK airports. The Escape Lounges (which KLM/Air France Business Class passengers have as their lounge) let pretty much anyone in for 25 quid (IIRC).

The result: Families of nouveau riche boozers quaffing free bubbly while their gluttonous kids devour all the sandwiches. There was a Welsh family watching and loudly cheering the rugby once when I was in one of those.

 

[Howardh]

That's something else that's annoying now at UK airports. The Escape Lounges (which KLM/Air France Business Class passengers have as their lounge) let pretty much anyone in for 25 quid (IIRC).

The result: Families of nouveau riche boozers quaffing free bubbly while their gluttonous kids devour all the sandwiches. There was a Welsh family watching and loudly cheering the rugby once when I was in one of those.

Think the cheapest is more than £35 at Manchester! Although it has to be said if you bought a meal and a couple of glasses of wine in the ordinary restaurants, then that's nearly the cost of the lounge!

 

[Trackman]

R/e moving seats, yes I reckon that's no problem if there are some available, but in some cases - particularly half-empty planes, they might refuse or ask you to move back on landing due to the balance of the plane. An insider will either cionfirm this, or wipe it away as an old wive's tale, however it did happen to me once when - during the collapse of Thomas Cook, they (Iberia) put us on an aircraft with no pre-booked seats, ther must have been only 30 or so of us, and there was quite a performance by the stewardess to make sure everyone was spread out and balanced!! Thought at one stage they were gonna weigh us!! Happy to report everyone complied and there was zero drunken behaviour!

I'm no expert, but it wouldn't make any odds when up in the air as the autopilot would correct the roll / pitch even if everyone moved.
I suppose it would matter on take off or even landing especially with pitch - I would guess it would be dependent on the type of aircraft. Side note: I know weight and distribution is critical in helicopters.

 

[Lost property]

I'm no expert, but it wouldn't make any odds when up in the air as the autopilot would correct the roll / pitch even if everyone moved.
I suppose it would matter on take off or even landing especially with pitch - I would guess it would be dependent on the type of aircraft. Side note: I know weight and distribution is critical in helicopters.

For anybody who is really interested, this article is helpful. Incidentally, jacking an aircraft also requires c of g to be considered in that it has to remain level throughout. It can be deceptively "easy " to find an aircraft is not being raised / lowered in equal movements.

The A/P will work as you speculate, but, only until it runs out of authority and is overcome by forces beyond its parameters.

One thing I would say, is, whilst alcohol is still available on aircraft, and why anybody in their right mind would drink champagne or any fizzy drink is beyond me given the gaseous content, thankfully, smoking has been banned on aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_gravity_of_an_aircraft

 

[Fleetmaster]

Making it illegal to be drunk on a plane but allowing groups of LADS LADS LADS get the pints (of Stella!) in early before their midday cheap flight to Magaluf is just so British.

Obviously your ability to sue an airline if you get punched by one of the LADS (and don't die as a result, which can happen) rests on you being able to prove they allowed a noticeably drunk person to board a flight. Good luck with that!

 

[Tetchytyke]

there was quite a performance by the stewardess to make sure everyone was spread out and balanced!!

Happens on the Loganair ATR72s from here, moving people around on more lightly loaded flights. I don’t quite understand why they don’t allocate seats more sensibly on quiet flights rather than doing it on boarding, but hey ho.

As for drunks, there does need to be more enforcement at the gate, but I can understand that a) it’s often hard to tell in the brief gate interaction and b) the badly-paid outsourced gate staff probably don’t care enough to have the argument. My experience is Jet2 are the best at managing drunken passengers, but having their own ground crew helps them.

 

[Howardh]

Happens on the Loganair ATR72s from here, moving people around on more lightly loaded flights. I don’t quite understand why they don’t allocate seats more sensibly on quiet flights rather than doing it on boarding, but hey ho.

As for drunks, there does need to be more enforcement at the gate, but I can understand that a) it’s often hard to tell in the brief gate interaction and b) the badly-paid outsourced gate staff probably don’t care enough to have the argument. My experience is Jet2 are the best at managing drunken passengers, but having their own ground crew helps them.

Could well move towards passengers being so fed up with their behaviour that they would support dry airports and planes at certain times, mainly around the holiday season, thus off-peak "normal" travellers can enjoy a bevvy before their flight.

I enjoy a pint, but would support airports being dry till mid-afternoon or later, so that I could chose a morning flight (where available) knowing that chances are the plane won't be full of drunks.

 

[andy1pom]

For anybody who is really interested, this article is helpful. Incidentally, jacking an aircraft also requires c of g to be considered in that it has to remain level throughout. It can be deceptively "easy " to find an aircraft is not being raised / lowered in equal movements.

The A/P will work as you speculate, but, only until it runs out of authority and is overcome by forces beyond its parameters.

One thing I would say, is, whilst alcohol is still available on aircraft, and why anybody in their right mind would drink champagne or any fizzy drink is beyond me given the gaseous content, thankfully, smoking has been banned on aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_gravity_of_an_aircraft

I have been involved in weighing many aircraft after large modifications (new seats, cabin, IFE etc). They are rolled onto scales under each wheel and weighed at least 3 times to ensure that an average value is calculated for CofG and total weight.
Although passengers are not (often) weighed before boarding, there are surveys done at regular intervals to determine the current average weights of passengers. The last EASA one I can find EASA Standard Passenger, in 2021 stated that the average male weighs 82.2kg , female 67.5kg. Plus the carry on limit of 7kg (ha ha!) gives 84kg as the average for a passenger (assuming 50/50 split). On a 300 seat aircraft that can be 25,000kg!
I know of a few flights where the passenger spread wasn't evenly distributed.
One case I am aware of is where all the children were seated at the rear and adults at the front (school trip).... The aircraft just managed to take off before the end of the runway as too much weight forward of the allowable CofG.
I was on a flight from the USA to UK on a chartered civilian aircraft with 200 military personnel and their kit bags. The airline normally flew families to the Med so the passenger weight was calculated as 1 male, 1 female and 2 kids. This flight had no children, a couple of females and some very beefy soldiers Once over the Atlantic we were advised we did not have enough fuel to get to our destination, Brize Norton, due to the excess weight; we stopped at Prestwick for a dash and go!

 

[Cloud Strife]

I've been on one flight that was full of LADS LADS LADS. A misery of an experience: I had to hand over some documents in Palma de Mallorca that they needed urgently, before flying onwards to Valencia that night to pick up some other documents. The plane was about 40-50% full of proper lads, and before they even commenced any sort of in-flight service, they made an announcement that the flight didn't have alcohol due to 'supplier miscommunication'. I was fortunate enough to be up front on BA, so I quietly asked if it was a decision made by the crew based on the sheer amount of imbeciles on board, and got a 'yes, we're not dealing with this when the plane has to come back to London tonight'.

And this was during the height of lad culture too, just to make things even worse. They were chanting and roaring for the whole 2 and a half hours, and they were tanked up on booze that they'd brought on board. There were several scuffles, a lot of abuse being hurled, and to this day I have no idea why most of them were allowed on that plane in the first place.

I have no idea to this day why they didn't confiscate the booze at the gate, or why BA thought it was a wise idea to let LADS sit together en masse at the back of the plane.

 

[BeijingDave]

I've travelled all over the world and only such Brits are imbecilic enough to cheer when the pilot lands the plane (you are on a BA Airbus lads not a prop plane trying to land in Pocara).

 

[Cloud Strife]

I've travelled all over the world and only such Brits are imbecilic enough to cheer when the pilot lands the plane (you are on a BA Airbus lads not a prop plane trying to land in Pocara).

It used to be widespread on low cost Polish flights, but fortunately the pandemic appears to have stopped that particularly stupid bit of behaviour.

 

[edwin_m]

I have no idea to this day why they didn't confiscate the booze at the gate, or why BA thought it was a wise idea to let LADS sit together en masse at the back of the plane.

Maybe better to have them all in one place rather than scattered around and disturbing everyone else even more?

 

[william.martin]

May I praise jet2's policy for this and other things related to the topic.

23.2
You must behave appropriately at all times whilst in the airport and on board the aircraft. In particular (but not limited to these examples) you must not:

contravene any applicable law (e.g. by being drunk on board an aircraft);
conduct yourself aboard the aircraft so as to endanger the aircraft or any person or property on board;
obstruct the crew in the performance of their duties;
fail to comply with any instruction of the crew;
use any threatening, abusive or insulting words or actions towards the crew or other passengers;
behave in a disorderly manner or in a manner to which other Passengers may reasonably object;
fail to comply with the terms of any document signed by you following contravention of one or more of the preceding conditions on a previous flight with us.
fail to comply with our safe travel requirements (as set out here: https://www.jet2.com/flights/safe-travel), including the requirement for you and your travel party to wear a facemask in the airport and on your flight where applicable.
23.3
If, in our reasonable opinion, you have failed to behave appropriately either in the airport or on board the aircraft or we consider you unfit to fly:

you may be prosecuted for offences committed on board the aircraft;
we may decide (in our reasonable discretion) to cancel your flight prior to take-off and/or, after take-off;
divert the aircraft to offload you, in which case you must pay to us all costs and expenses which we incur of any nature whatsoever as a result of or arising out of that diversion;
we may decide to cancel any return flight or other future flights you have with us, without refund;
we may take any other measures we deem necessary to prevent continuation of your inappropriate conduct, including your restraint or removal from the aircraft or airport.
In all of the above circumstances, you shall not be refunded the price of your booking, and we shall not be liable for any costs you incur as a result of us refusing carriage.

You will indemnify us for all costs and expenses (including the legal costs we incur in bringing any action against you) arising from your improper conduct on board the aircraft including (but not limited to) any damage caused to the aircraft.

23.4
We reserve the right to request that you undertake a breath test procedure at any time prior to travel. If you either refuse to take the test or fail the test, we reserve the right to refuse you permission to travel. Notwithstanding this right, even if you pass the test we still remain entitled to act in accordance with clause 23.2 in our absolute discretion.

23.5
Only alcoholic drinks purchased on board may be consumed during the flight. Jet2.com reserves the right to serve alcoholic drinks to customers at our absolute discretion.

Link to full website

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 May 2023 ==

I do think it's ok for alcohol to be consumed even before boarding however it is important that nobody has had enough alcohol to be drunk neither at boarding or at arrival.