Disagreeable laptop

[birchesgreen]

No it's not. It's because Microsoft have, to all intents and purposes, a monopoly in the PC operating system space, so they do what they like and the user just has to put up with it.

You are saying its not true that most people with laptops want to use them online?

 

[py_megapixel]

You are saying its not true that most people with laptops want to use them online?

No, I'm not saying that. I am saying I don't think that's the reason that there is no option to skip the network connection.

I agree that most people probably want to connect their laptop to the internet, and accordingly I think it's prudent to include the opportunity to do this as part of the initial setup procedure, but that doesn't mean i has to be required. All it takes is a button which says "do not connect to network". The decision not to provide this comes across to me as very much deliberate on Microsoft's part.

 

[david1212]

If they're trying to do this with the consumer versions of Windows then they're doing it wrong. That type of work is what the Long Term Servicing versions of Windows are designed for - they only get security updates and no feature updates. Latest version is still based on Windows 10, and even that is several feature updates behind the consumer versions.

.... but AFAIK Dell etc don't offer that at least for one-off or even five-off. For business targeted ranges it is Professional.
Windows 10 has been fine. Time will tell when forced to used 11.

No it's not. It's because Microsoft have, to all intents and purposes, a monopoly in the PC operating system space, so they do what they like and the user just has to put up with it.

Make no mistake, the mandatory internet connection is there for Microsoft's benefit to a much greater extent than the user's. I object to this for the simple reason that the computer belongs to me, not Microsoft.


And to uninstall whatever pointless bloat Microsoft/the OEM/the retailer decides to preload!

You are saying its not true that most people with laptops want to use them online?

Part of the day job is dealing with Windows, even now all of NT4, 2000, XP, 7 & 10 plus server 2003 and 2012. Fortunately not ME or Vista and rarely 8.

Rarely now but regularly several years ago I ran a predominantly Powerpoint presentation system that was Windows 7. Often it was grinding away on updates and then wanting to reboot even though registry set so it ought not to. At the end then have to wait for first stage of updates then whoever wanted to use next time was faced with waiting for the second stage.

When I get home I just want to switch on laptop and use including not having most of the CPU capacity etc grinding away at a load of updates. Even if updates are delayed they still have to be done. I stuck with XP up to about 2016.

When Windows 10 was announced with bi-annual major updates I decided 'no way' so jumped to Linux. First Mint but currently Debian with KDE for the screen rescaling. I need 1920 x 1080 clearly as if 1366 x 768. There are almost daily updates but take a couple minutes. Windows 10 is also installed as second option on the dual boot but I have not booted it for ages .... some time soonish I will have to.

 

[Gloster]

All the above, much of which is incomprehensible to me, makes me think that I won’t bother to replace my laptop when it dies. I will go back to my old practice of writing the texts down on the back of old C5 envelopes and typing it up in the library.

 

[Parjon]

Bought a new laptop ,turn it on and then find you can't finish setting it up without internet connection ,what if you DON'T want it for online use ? it's as annoying as the general assumption by various organisations that everyone has a smartphone and can use apps !

Assuming you haven't already set it up:

1. Turn it on, but don't do anything
2. On your keyboard, top row find the key with the aeroplane symbol
3. Hold down the FN key (bottom left) and tap that key. That turns off all networking devices.
4. Now go through Windows set up
5. When you get to the create account page, bottom left you'll see a new option that says "I don't have internet". Click it.
6. On the next screen click "Continue with limited set up". Create your now entirely offline user account and password and set up your computer.

When you're finished and have restarted and logged in, repeat step 3 to enable networking again. If Windows prompts you to create a Microsoft account just click No.

"Limited set up" isn't at all limited. When you connect to the internet you'll still get automatic windows updates, and be able to do exactly the same things with your machine as everyone else.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2022 ==

All the above, much of which is incomprehensible to me, makes me think that I won’t bother to replace my laptop when it dies. I will go back to my old practice of writing the texts down on the back of old C5 envelopes and typing it up in the library.

Get a Chromebook would be my advice.

If you don't already have a Google account you do need to create one when you first set it up, but it walks you through the super simple process and you're up and running in minutes.

When it's set up, there is nothing more to do other than just use it. It will make your CS envelopes system seem over-engineered!

 

[Gloster]

Get a Chromebook would be my advice.

If you don't already have a Google account you do need to create one when you first set it up, but it walks you through the super simple process and you're up and running in minutes.

When it's set up, there is nothing more to do other than just use it. It will make your CS envelopes system seem over-engineered!

A quick look at what a Chromebook is has left me little the wiser, however it does say that it is basically useless offline and that it needs Google Cloud printing, whatever that is. However, I have always used the library as I have never had a printer. (*) I think that the possible problems are so great that I will go to my low-tech envelope method.

* - Actually, I do have a printer, which came from my father, but it is so old that it probably has ‘Crimean War Surplus’ engraved on it.

 

[BluePenguin]

If you choose not to connect to Wi-Fi, you can make a local account and avoid having to enter your email address and do annoying updates. Simply make a local account and get straight to the desktop. If it won't let you, then connect to your wireless network but pull the phone line out first so that setup can't phone home and let's you make a local account for now

 

[Acey]

Assuming you haven't already set it up:

1. Turn it on, but don't do anything
2. On your keyboard, top row find the key with the aeroplane symbol
3. Hold down the FN key (bottom left) and tap that key. That turns off all networking devices.
4. Now go through Windows set up
5. When you get to the create account page, bottom left you'll see a new option that says "I don't have internet". Click it.
6. On the next screen click "Continue with limited set up". Create your now entirely offline user account and password and set up your computer.

When you're finished and have restarted and logged in, repeat step 3 to enable networking again. If Windows prompts you to create a Microsoft account just click No.

"Limited set up" isn't at all limited. When you connect to the internet you'll still get automatic windows updates, and be able to do exactly the same things with your machine as everyone else.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2022 ==


Get a Chromebook would be my advice.

If you don't already have a Google account you do need to create one when you first set it up, but it walks you through the super simple process and you're up and running in minutes.

When it's set up, there is nothing more to do other than just use it. It will make your CS envelopes system seem over-engineered!

Thanks for that,next time I will do as you suggested ,I actually returned the pc to Currys and fed a new operating system disc into an old Acer pc that I had lying around which booted up and is running perfectly ,so Iam going to do nothing unless I have to ! Just like to say thanks for everyone's help,this really is one of the most friendly forums !

 

[gmaguire]

Part of the day job is dealing with Windows, even now all of NT4, 2000, XP, 7 & 10 plus server 2003 and 2012. Fortunately not ME or Vista and rarely 8.

What do you do that involves those legacy OSes?

 

[Bevan Price]

Before "dumping" old computers that have become slow and ponderous, try cleaning some of the rubbish that has been stored on them without your knowledge - things like temporary files, log files, cached files, etc. left by updates, new software installations, internet browsing, Most of those can safely be removed and your computer will often run faster, although not quite as fast as when it was new.

Windows 10 has one useful tool.
Go to Settings / Storage / Fixing Low Disc Space, and use the option to clear unwanted stuff.

Or, various free utilities are generally safe if you select options carefully.

Also - sometimes easier with utilities than with Windows, check the "start up" menu. A lot of software inserts itself into the start menu - whether or not you actually need it every time. Remove any items that you don't really need from that start menu.

 

[nlogax]

Before "dumping" old computers that have become slow and ponderous,

Giving old laptops or PCs to charity should also be more widely encouraged. Cleaning up the drive contents and installation before donation will restore that 'as new' systems performance as well as prevent your data being accessible, or if you want a fresh start on your own device.

Give your PC a Fresh Start​

Windows 10
Resetting your PC lets you perform a clean reinstallation and update of Windows while keeping your personal data and most Windows settings intact. In some cases, a clean installation may improve your device's performance, security, browsing experience, and battery life.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...b927-549b-b7c9-e6f2b48d275e#ID0EBD=Windows_11
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/give-your-pc-a-fresh-start-0ef73740-b927-549b-b7c9-e6f2b48d275e#ID0EBD=Windows_10

 

[david1212]

What do you do that involves those legacy OSes?

Support industrial systems either directly keeping it running which here is installing the relevant OS on a new hard drive then drivers and system software or indirect support needing legacy software. Of course these systems should have been upgraded but a combination of nobody made responsible and/or no funding from the bean counters.

XP > Vista was a breakpoint at which software for NT4, Win95-98 & 2K mostly would run on XP but nothing later.

Just last week I put both XP and Win7 32-bit on a laptop then various versions of a software package so it can be taken to a customer site with the aim to interogate an existing system we did not supply with a view to us supplying a modern replacement.

.... Get a Chromebook would be my advice.

If you don't already have a Google account you do need to create one when you first set it up, but it walks you through the super simple process and you're up and running in minutes.

When it's set up, there is nothing more to do other than just use it. It will make your CS envelopes system seem over-engineered!

A quick look at what a Chromebook is has left me little the wiser, however it does say that it is basically useless offline and that it needs Google Cloud printing, whatever that is. However, I have always used the library as I have never had a printer. (*) I think that the possible problems are so great that I will go to my low-tech envelope method.

* - Actually, I do have a printer, which came from my father, but it is so old that it probably has ‘Crimean War Surplus’ engraved on it.

There is a market, perhaps too limited, for something like a Chromebook but independant of being tied in to Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon etc. Having
- web browswer e.g. Firefox
- email e.g. Thunderbird
- PDF reader e.g. Foxit
- Office application to read and create *.docx, *.xlsx, *.pptx and generate PDF e.g. Libre Office
- organiser / diary / contacts
- photo viewer
- audio & video player e.g. VLC
- simple photo / graphics editor to put images and screen grabs into email & documents
- physical USB ports to save & backup
- connection to a TV ideally HDMI as well as wireless.
would meet 99% of requirements.

Essentially this is what I have used Linux based since 2016/7.
Getting it running though is a leaning curve. I don't claim to undertand the installation and configuration that can not be done in a GUI (Windows style) way but has to be done through the terminal ( in MS terms DOS command line ) just blindly copy and paste plus keep notes for the future.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a market, perhaps too limited

Very limited. M$ is the underdog these days, not the big evil empire. Google, well, you like them or not. Apple, the hardware is pricey but it's excellent for a newbie. Linux is for techies and will always be so.

For someone without IT skills wanting to browse the Web and do little else I'd recommend a used iPad. There's nothing simpler than iOS. Get one with a SIM card slot and you don't even need to install broadband/wifi.

 

[david1212]

Very limited. M$ is the underdog these days, not the big evil empire. Google, well, you like them or not. Apple, the hardware is pricey but it's excellent for a newbie. Linux is for techies and will always be so.

For someone without IT skills wanting to browse the Web and do little else I'd recommend a used iPad. There's nothing simpler than iOS. Get one with a SIM card slot and you don't even need to install broadband/wifi.

Indeed - a quick search shows for a 12.9" Ipad around £1000 upwards plus a keyboard / trackpad / stand.

 

[py_megapixel]

M$ is the underdog these days, not the big evil empire.

In the home, maybe, though I doubt it. In the world at large, absolutely not...

Linux is for techies and will always be so.

As things shift increasingly towards people doing things in web browsers, I would hope the OEMs will make an effort to persuade customers that if all they want to do is run Chrome, a mail client and a basic word processor, they don't actually need Windows and are probably best dispensing with it. After all, for cheap laptops, the Windows license will be a substantial portion of the cost of the device which I'm sure they'd rather cut out. Unless, that is, they have some sort of exclusivity arrangement with Microsoft, but I thought that had been clamped down on.

(ChromeOS is a Linux distribution - possibly the single most successful Linux distribution - and that's exactly the premise it's sold on)

There's nothing simpler than iOS.

Everyone says this, but it always feels far harder to use than Android to me. You have to do things exactly the way the designers expected or it doesn't work. This is fine if you are new to computing and prepared to learn Apple's way of doing things, but otherwise its infuriating.

Indeed - a quick search shows for a 12.9" Ipad around £1000 upwards plus a keyboard / trackpad / stand.

You don't exactly need the latest and greatest 13-inch iPad for web browsing though. A smaller second hand one which is a few years old will be ample.

Also, in my experience hardly anyone with an iPad uses it with any accessories other than a case and possibly a stylus.

 

[gmaguire]

Before "dumping" old computers that have become slow and ponderous, try cleaning some of the rubbish that has been stored on them without your knowledge - things like temporary files, log files, cached files, etc. left by updates, new software installations, internet browsing, Most of those can safely be removed and your computer will often run faster, although not quite as fast as when it was new.

Windows 10 has one useful tool.
Go to Settings / Storage / Fixing Low Disc Space, and use the option to clear unwanted stuff.

Or, various free utilities are generally safe if you select options carefully.

Also - sometimes easier with utilities than with Windows, check the "start up" menu. A lot of software inserts itself into the start menu - whether or not you actually need it every time. Remove any items that you don't really need from that start menu.

Another thing to try before dumping an old computer is to clean the dust out of the heatsink and fan. People are often surprised that dust can slow a computer down. It will simply block the airflow and make the CPU run hotter, then the CPU will slow itself down to prevent overheating. Sometimes it requires some skill to take laptops apart and clean them, but you can often get away with just holding the hoover nozzle up against the vents to clean it. If the dust is sticky like it can be in smoker’s home that trick might not work.

Another thing to try, which requires a bit more skill, is to replace the old fashioned mechanical hard drive (if the computer has one) with a solid state drive (SSD). The difference in speed is often night and day. I’m sure many computers (being made as late as 2017 or so) have been thrown away out of disgust for being unbearably slow, when all they really needed was an SSD.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2022 ==

Support industrial systems either directly keeping it running which here is installing the relevant OS on a new hard drive then drivers and system software or indirect support needing legacy software. Of course these systems should have been upgraded but a combination of nobody made responsible and/or no funding from the bean counters.

XP > Vista was a breakpoint at which software for NT4, Win95-98 & 2K mostly would run on XP but nothing later.

Just last week I put both XP and Win7 32-bit on a laptop then various versions of a software package so it can be taken to a customer site with the aim to interogate an existing system we did not supply with a view to us supplying a modern replacement.

I wouldn’t mind doing that job. I’ve always liked playing with legacy OSes.