Digital Fraud team - England

[Haywain]

The TOC have no evidence of who was stopped for the penalty fare. They cannot prosecute for that either.

They will prosecute the name and address they were given, whether that is a real person or not.

 

[WesternLancer]

The TOC have no evidence of who was stopped for the penalty fare. They cannot prosecute for that either. We have never seen a case of it on the forum- false details, traveller not IDd, purchaser taken to court. Never.

OP, when exactly were you penalty fared?

I can see this logic. But they appear to know the op has a penalty fare outstanding as it’s mentioned in the prosecution threat letter they have received.
So why if they escalated the penalty fare to court would they not use the correct details they have worked out for the person they have issued the penalty fare to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==

Well that sucks. Guess I'm going to be calling the IRCAS soon.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how I should approach the call? I'm not sure what name the fine is under.

So you can’t recall the false name you gave?

 

[AlterEgo]

I can see this logic. But they appear to know the op has a penalty fare outstanding as it’s mentioned in the prosecution threat letter they have received.

No, they are guessing that they were the person stopped on a "well I reckon". They have no evidence of the person stopped, and did not ID them at the time.

 

[pittabread]

The TOC have no evidence of who was stopped for the penalty fare. They cannot prosecute for that either. We have never seen a case of it on the forum- false details, traveller not IDd, purchaser taken to court. Never.

OP, when exactly were you penalty fared?

I was given a white receipt like slip about 2 months ago.

I did the same thing about 2 years prior.

The person above says that there have been people who have eventually had it catch up with them though. So I'm not sure which way to go now

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==

I can see this logic. But they appear to know the op has a penalty fare outstanding as it’s mentioned in the prosecution threat letter they have received.
So why if they escalated the penalty fare to court would they not use the correct details they have worked out for the person they have issued the penalty fare to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==


So you can’t recall the false name you gave?

No. Generic name. I think maybe I remember the first name, but the last name not a chance.

I guess that's why they say when you use fake details your meant to pick something with the same letters as your initials

 

[WesternLancer]

I was given a white receipt like slip about 2 months ago.

I did the same thing about 2 years prior.

The person above says that there have been people who have eventually had it catch up with them though. So I'm not sure which way to go now

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==


No. Generic name. I think maybe I remember the first name, but the last name not a chance.

I guess that's why they say when you use fake details your meant to pick something with the same letters as your initials

Well it’s possible the people they caught up with gave more accurate details. But still ignored the requests to pay the penalty fare. Or moved house during the process so didn’t know about it until the bailiffs found them.

 

[pittabread]

They will prosecute the name and address they were given, whether that is a real person or not.

So, I'm safe?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==

Well it’s possible the people they caught up with gave more accurate details. But still ignored the requests to pay the penalty fare. Or moved house during the process so didn’t know about it until the bailiffs found them.

Which people they caught up with?

You know for certain that certain people who have fake details have eventually had Bailiffs knocking on their door?

 

[WesternLancer]

You know for certain that certain people who have fake details have eventually had Bailiffs knocking on their door?

No I don’t know for certain (I don’t have the time to check what people who write on the internet say is true fact that I can independently verify and state that I know for certain).

But if it does eventually happen to you it would help others if you can come back and let us know. Likewise if in six or 12 months it’s not happened let us know that too.

 

[pittabread]

No I don’t know for certain (I don’t have the time to check what people who write on the internet say is true fact that I can independently verify and state that I know for certain).

But if it does eventually happen to you it would help others if you can come back and let us know. Likewise if in six or 12 months it’s not happened let us know that too.

I guess it's one of those things. If something happens I'll probably be back here crying and pointing fingers, but if everything is o.k and it's all good then you never hear from the person again.

I don't mean if you independently verify things are true. I meant if you've read comments from forum members where it has caught up with them.

 

[AlterEgo]

I can see this logic. But they appear to know the op has a penalty fare outstanding as it’s mentioned in the prosecution threat letter they have received.
So why if they escalated the penalty fare to court would they not use the correct details they have worked out for the person they have issued the penalty fare to.

They just *reckon* that's who it is. They don't have to prove anything at this stage because they're trying to get money from the OP. What they cannot do is use the OP's details to prosecute Mr A Fakename's penalty fare just because they purchased the ticket.

They had their chance to do their jobs properly and verify the details at the time of the stop. They did not, and hence they have lost the evidence required to prove the identity of the traveller in a criminal court. Too bad for them; they should do things properly in future. As @Haywain notes, one of the amazing features of England's legal system is you can just prosecute made up people who don't exist. They will have to use the details given at the time of the stop.

 

[WesternLancer]

I guess it's one of those things. If something happens I'll probably be back here crying and pointing fingers, but if everything is o.k and it's all good then you never hear from the person again.

I don't mean if you independently verify things are true. I meant if you've read comments from forum members where it has caught up with them.

I’ve definitely read cases on here where unpaid penalty fares have caught up with people. But the forum search facility has not found them easily to check exact circumstances eg if they gave false details. But you can do some searching I guess.

I don’t think anyone here can gaurantee they would not catch up with someone. But that probably depends on how much effort the court and railway are prepared to put in. They might find it easier just to find other evaders instead

 

[pittabread]

They just *reckon* that's who it is. They don't have to prove anything at this stage because they're trying to get money from the OP. What they cannot do is use the OP's details to prosecute Mr A Fakename's penalty fare just because they purchased the ticket.

They had their chance to do their jobs properly and verify the details at the time of the stop. They did not, and hence they have lost the evidence required to prove the identity of the traveller in a criminal court. Too bad for them; they should do things properly in future. As @Haywain notes, one of the amazing features of England's legal system is you can just prosecute made up people who don't exist. They will have to use the details given at the time of the stop.

All of this is because I wanted to save £4 on a ticket. Damn train that leads to London. I know it's full of inspectors but I chances it for just a few quid. It was the first time I even boarded that train in about three years.

I've checked over my app and over the past year I have saved myself £34 in fares doing the phony rail card in 2025.

If I knew that it would lead to this, I would have slapped myself for even pressing that rail card option on the app.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==

I’ve definitely read cases on here where unpaid penalty fares have caught up with people. But the forum search facility has not found them easily to check exact circumstances eg if they gave false details. But you can do some searching I guess.

I don’t think anyone here can gaurantee they would not catch up with someone. But that probably depends on how much effort the court and railway are prepared to put in. They might find it easier just to find other evaders instead

Guess tomorrow I'll be digging into old posts to see if there is any issues with the fake address.

The search function on this site isn't the best, so we'll see.

 

[enyoueffsea]

They did not, and hence they have lost the evidence required to prove the identity of the traveller in a criminal court.

I’m not sure I completely agree on this. You do not need to ID a shoplifter, for example, to prosecute them. There is always the ability to build a case based on circumstantial evidence (through journey patterns and CCTV), or the RPI to provide a statement identifying the individual, or a combination of methods.

Although whether the TOC has the competence or desire to attempt to take this forward is extremely questionable. It’s probably an extremely low risk for the OP but I would not give them complete assurance they have nothing to worry about.

I wouldn’t entertain the email though. The likely outcome of you responding will be to incriminate yourself int he original incident. Say nothing until the day someone presents evidence to you.

 

[AlterEgo]

I’m not sure I completely agree on this. You do not need to ID a shoplifter, for example, to prosecute them.

Yes you do. The police go and arrest the shoplifter and their identity is ascertained; this does not happen with private railway prosecutions.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

All of this is because I wanted to save £4 on a ticket. Damn train that leads to London. I know it's full of inspectors but I chances it for just a few quid. It was the first time I even boarded that train in about three years.

I've checked over my app and over the past year I have saved myself £34 in fares doing the phony rail card in 2025.

And your flippant reaction shows why fare evasion is such a huge issue, with huge numbers of passengers unable to see that they have commited a criminal offence - the amount saved or avoided is irrelevant.

Your 'a few quid a few times a week's adds up over time. Multiply that by how many people look to avoid fares as it's 'only a few quid' and it ends up being hundreds of millions owed each year!

If you steal a bag of sweets, or a selection box at Christmas, or a pair of Levi jeans, or a Prada handbag, it matters not the value of the item. It is a criminal offence nonetheless.

The only difference usually is the company who was stolen from will weigh up the costs involved in dealing with that theft with taking action. The railway is an outlier in that it looks to take action against all who commit fare evasion. Genuine mistakes and ticketless travel are usually charged for their misdemeanors through the Penalty Fare system.

 

[pittabread]

And your flippant reaction shows why fare evasion is such a huge issue, with huge numbers of passengers unable to see that they have commited a criminal offence - the amount saved or avoided is irrelevant.

Your 'a few quid a few times a week's adds up over time. Multiply that by how many people look to avoid fares as it's 'only a few quid' and it ends up being hundreds of millions owed each year!

If you steal a bag of sweets, or a selection box at Christmas, or a pair of Levi jeans, or a Prada handbag, it matters not the value of the item. It is a criminal offence nonetheless.

The only difference usually is the company who was stolen from will weigh up the costs involved in dealing with that theft with taking action. The railway is an outlier in that it looks to take action against all who commit fare evasion. Genuine mistakes and ticketless travel are usually charged for their misdemeanors through the Penalty Fare system.

To be fair I don't think he is being flippant as much as he is sticking to the question on hand.

I've more than learnt my lesson on this. I was quite literally saving a couple of quid every two or three weeks for the last 4 months ( I was abroad for a period before that ).

Also there is a difference, let us not compare this to shoplifting. It's similar to me using a discount code that I'm not eligible for. I still paid. I just used a way to pay that I wasn't eligible to.

Right now I'm asking for help on what to do exactly, so as not to screw myself over and potentially mess up my employability. If this was a case of just hand some money over and it goes away I would do that right now, I wouldn't even mind paying the full price ticket for the stuff I cheated on, because I only catch the train for a 4 or so stops, and the day I got the fine is the exception.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2025 ==

I’m not sure I completely agree on this. You do not need to ID a shoplifter, for example, to prosecute them. There is always the ability to build a case based on circumstantial evidence (through journey patterns and CCTV), or the RPI to provide a statement identifying the individual, or a combination of methods.

Although whether the TOC has the competence or desire to attempt to take this forward is extremely questionable. It’s probably an extremely low risk for the OP but I would not give them complete assurance they have nothing to worry about.

I wouldn’t entertain the email though. The likely outcome of you responding will be to incriminate yourself int he original incident. Say nothing until the day someone presents evidence to you.

Thanks for that bit of advice. I was one click away from replying to them asking for 'clarification' on what the email is about.

The threat of jail and criminal action is certainly an effective way of getting people to reply. If I didn't post here, I would have definitely replied by now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2025 ==

Did you pay the penalty fare? If not, this is a bigger concern.

You may have provided "random" (false) details, but it's now clear that they know who you are from your Trainline ticket purchases.

Providing false details is, itself, a criminal offense under Section 5(3) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, on top of any potential offense committed at the time by travelling on a ticket without owning the Railcard used to discount it.

Sorry for this message. I've noticed next to your name you have some type of tags that indicate, you are a bit of an expert.

It seems like the emails are mass sent as a way of trawling for potential people. So they can be theoretically be ignored.

My question now is, the fine I received a month or so ago. Do i try chase it up, considering I have fake name and address, considering I do not remember the name.

Or am I theoretically safe from that fine, and it will not find it's way to me.

Or course that chapter of my life is now shut, and I've purchased a proper rail card right now, I just now need to figure how to lay this to rest.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Sorry for this message. I've noticed next to your name you have some type of tags that indicate, you are a bit of an expert.

It seems like the emails are mass sent as a way of trawling for potential people. So they can be theoretically be ignored.

My question now is, the fine I received a month or so ago. Do i try chase it up, considering I have fake name and address, considering I do not remember the name.

Or am I theoretically safe from that fine, and it will not find it's way to me.

Or course that chapter of my life is now shut, and I've purchased a proper rail card right now, I just now need to figure how to lay this to rest.

The simple answer to this sort of question is that we don't know. The railway may pursue matters thoroughly, or they may not. More often than not they don't - but there's no guarantee of that happening in any given case.

So all we can suggest is that you stop breaking the law, and pay the right fare at the right time in future. Or colloquially: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

(edited - full stop to comma)

 

[MrJeeves]

My question now is, the fine I received a month or so ago. Do i try chase it up, considering I have fake name and address, considering I do not remember the name.

Or am I theoretically safe from that fine, and it will not find it's way to me.

My reply will be the same as @Fawkes Cat's. We don't know if they'll pursue it further.

As @AlterEgo has also said, they won't be able to prove it was you who travelled with the ticket and received the penalty fare, even if you bought the ticket.

I would personally still just keep quiet and not engage with their email (or future ones — they're known to send follow-ups saying they're referring the case to BTP, for example).

 

[pittabread]

The simple answer to this sort of question is that we don't know. The railway may pursue matters thoroughly, or they may not. More often than not they don't - but there's no guarantee of that happening in any given case.

So all we can suggest is that you stop breaking the law, and pay the right fare at the right time in future. Or colloquially: when you're in a hole. stop digging.

My reply will be the same as @Fawkes Cat's. We don't know if they'll pursue it further.

As @AlterEgo has also said, they won't be able to prove it was you who travelled with the ticket and received the penalty fare, even if you bought the ticket.

I would personally still just keep quiet and not engage with their email (or future ones — they're known to send follow-ups saying they're referring the case to BTP, for example).

Yep lesson learned the hard way. I went through, how much I saved this year ( 2025) and it was around £36.

All of this headache for £36. Sometimes the stuff I do confuses even me.

 

[pittabread]

My reply will be the same as @Fawkes Cat's. We don't know if they'll pursue it further.

As @AlterEgo has also said, they won't be able to prove it was you who travelled with the ticket and received the penalty fare, even if you bought the ticket.

I would personally still just keep quiet and not engage with their email (or future ones — they're known to send follow-ups saying they're referring the case to BTP, for example).

Got a follow up email, which includes how much they feel I should be paying, and if I don't get in touch with them soon they'll escalate to their prosecution team.

Usually after this how many more emails are there?

Sorry if it feels like I'm restarting this thread. I'm planning on updating the main post as time goes on so other people in the future find it as a source of reference, which should help you guys out.

 

[Titfield]

Got a follow up email, which includes how much they feel I should be paying, and if I don't get in touch with them soon they'll escalate to their prosecution team.

Usually after this how many more emails are there?

Sorry if it feels like I'm restarting this thread. I'm planning on updating the main post as time goes on so other people in the future find it as a source of reference, which should help you guys out.

The advice not to enagage stays the same. The TOC will continue to email you / write to you.

You have a choice: engage, admit your wrong doing and end up paying up

OR

Ignore and continue to ignore.

The question is your appetite for the risk in that the TOC will pursue and eventually track you down or whether you need to pay up and have a clear conscience.

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry if it feels like I'm restarting this thread. I'm planning on updating the main post as time goes on so other people in the future find it as a source of reference, which should help you guys out.

Thanks for this - I think that is very useful - a lot of people get these messages so a full staged update that shows how many such messages, how frequently, what is being said etc could well help others who get these e-mails in the future and indeed for the first time.

 

[pittabread]

The advice not to enagage stays the same. The TOC will continue to email you / write to you.

You have a choice: engage, admit your wrong doing and end up paying up

OR

Ignore and continue to ignore.

The question is your appetite for the risk in that the TOC will pursue and eventually track you down or whether you need to pay up and have a clear conscience.

I would consider paying tbh, but the recent email they sent buried that.

It looks like they want to add in every single purchase I've made on the train app to the calculation. Everything over the last 8 years or so.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2025 ==

Thanks for this - I think that is very useful - a lot of people get these messages so a full staged update that shows how many such messages, how frequently, what is being said etc could well help others who get these e-mails in the future and indeed for the first time.

Yep. Can't complain about the lack of info and then not participate yourself. I can at least help others in the future.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Nov 2025 ==

Third email now.

This is a last warning email informing me it will be escalated to transport police.

This email is a bit more directed now. Not as wide sweeping as the previous ones. With a name attached to it.