Delay Repay in this situation?

[beeza1]

I have been on a few trains where people have been prevented from boarding due to overcrowding, or in some cases been asked to leave the train and catch the next one, in these circumstances would the passenger be entitled to Delay Repay if the "next" train, running on time, was more than 30 mins later?

 

[najaB]

I have been on a few trains where people have been prevented from boarding due to overcrowding..

I have had twice claimed in this situation and it was paid without dispute. I'm not so sure about the asked to leave situation though.

 

[Hadders]

I’ve successfully claimed from GTR in this situation.

 

[yorkie]

If you were specifically asked to take a later train, then you have a very good case, which I do not believe the TOC could get out of.

 

[gray1404]

Out of interest which trains have you been asked to leave? I have seldom seen this done and, in all honesty, I would ignore any such instruction if I thought it possible to board.

 

[beeza1]

Out of interest which trains have you been asked to leave? I have seldom seen this done and, in all honesty, I would ignore any such instruction if I thought it possible to board.

I have never been asked to leave a train, or indeed never failed to board. I only asked out of curiosity, Just before Christmas I was on a packed XC service, when we arrived at Sheffield some 15 mins late, people started trying to board so the TM "suggested" some people may like to get off and catch the next service in around 20 mins time and have a less crowded journey. People were left on the platform at every stop as far as New Street, including a wheelchair user at, I think Tamworth.
Another occasion I witnessed was at Wolverhampton one evening a few years ago, again just before Christmas, when the TM on the XC service from Manchester announced that the train was not moving unless some people got off, he informed them there was a LM service in something like 10 mins time, I don't know if anyone got off but, the train was on it's way shortly after.

 

[najaB]

Just before Christmas I was on a packed XC service, when we arrived at Sheffield some 15 mins late, people started trying to board so the TM "suggested" some people may like to get off and catch the next service in around 20 mins time and have a less crowded journey.

That's a bit different to being told to disembark though.

Another occasion I witnessed was at Wolverhampton one evening a few years ago, again just before Christmas, when the TM on the XC service from Manchester announced that the train was not moving unless some people got off, he informed them there was a LM service in something like 10 mins time, I don't know if anyone got off but, the train was on it's way shortly after.

Was the situation that the train was full, called at the station and a lot of people tried to get on but the guard said he wasn't prepared to move with the train that full? I've had that happen but the people already on the train stayed on and it was back to the first scenario out outlined - unable to board due to overcrowding.

 

[beeza1]

That's a bit different to being told to disembark though.

Was the situation that the train was full, called at the station and a lot of people tried to get on but the guard said he wasn't prepared to move with the train that full? I've had that happen but the people already on the train stayed on and it was back to the first scenario out outlined - unable to board due to overcrowding.

It's quite a while ago, from memory I think it would be "Frantic Friday", the train would have been quite busy, as it always is on a Friday evening, I just remember the large number of people on the platform at WVH and thinking no way can they all get on. I assumed they were going to Brum for a night out and didn't want to get the LM stopper, I suppose some of the people could have been travelling further but we will never know.

 

[Starmill]

I have seldom seen this done and, in all honesty, I would ignore any such instruction if I thought it possible to board.

Why? I've heard it made as a request before. It is reasonable if there is another train within a few minutes. I often do not take the first available train of my own accord as a result of overcrowding.

 

[Hadders]

Out of interest which trains have you been asked to leave? I have seldom seen this done and, in all honesty, I would ignore any such instruction if I thought it possible to board.

An example was the Coventry to Nuneaton shuttle which was a 2x153 when there was rugby at the Ricoh. Wedged was an understatement - there wasn't even room for the guard to get on. Some people were asked to get off. I was ok as I had arrived early and had a seat!

I've often been unable to board at Kings Cross during disruption, the train to Stevenage I wanted was cancelled the next one was too full to board. In this case I it out me over the threshold for a delay claim which they paid.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I've been on Pendolinos at Euston on a Friday that would not leave (the train!) as it was overloaded and pax had to disembark.

 

[paddington]

How can TOCs verify that passengers who claim were actually delayed? Unscrupulous passengers who stayed on the train but were aware that some people were forced to disembark could easily file fraudulent claims.

 

[Hadders]

How can TOCs verify that passengers who claim were actually delayed? Unscrupulous passengers who stayed on the train but were aware that some people were forced to disembark could easily file fraudulent claims.

They can't but that's no different to the situation with Delay Repay for any flexible ticket holder.

 

[robbeech]

How can TOCs verify that passengers who claim were actually delayed? Unscrupulous passengers who stayed on the train but were aware that some people were forced to disembark could easily file fraudulent claims.

There isn’t an easy way to check this, however frequent claims might flag up and be checked in more detail enabling them to be caught.

 

[gray1404]

What detail though? If a customer was delayed, or says they were the Toc has to except that. There is no way of them disproving the customers claim.

Regarding the Pendo example at Euston, surely if customers are on board and the doors can close then the train can leave. Even if it is full and standing doesn't prevent it moving.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Regarding the Pendo example at Euston, surely if customers are on board and the doors can close then the train can leave. Even if it is full and standing doesn't prevent it moving.

The train has weight limit sensors and will not move if overloaded. I'm assuming it's to ensure proper operation of the titling system.

 

[xotGD]

The train has weight limit sensors and will not move if overloaded. I'm assuming it's to ensure proper operation of the titling system.

Do they ask the heaviest passengers to get off first to minimise the number of people who are inconvenienced?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Do they ask the heaviest passengers to get off first to minimise the number of people who are inconvenienced?

Just as well I was enthroned in the centre of the train