DDA/Low Floor requirements- Question

[Martin1988]

Hi there.

I am a little bit confused about the upcoming DDA requirements for bus/coach operators. I understand that vehicles up to a certain weight/tonne have to be DDA from specific dates but how does it apply to the actual services themselves?

Is there a specific date for when all passenger services in the UK have to be operated with accessible vehicles?

 

[TheWalrus]

I think there is a date, not sure but maybe 2016?

 

[mbonwick]

Vehicles under 7.5t - 1st January 2015
Single deck over 7.5t - 1st January 2016
Double deck - 1st January 2017
Coaches - 1st January 2020 (IIRC)

Note that DDA compliance for coaches only applies to those being used on stage service, not private hire or touring work.

So in answer to your question, theoretically from 2020 everything should be DDA, although there are exceptions that allow limited operation of non-compliant vehicles.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Vehicles under 7.5t - 1st January 2015
Single deck over 7.5t - 1st January 2016
Double deck - 1st January 2017
Coaches - 1st January 2020 (IIRC)

Note that DDA compliance for coaches only applies to those being used on stage service, not private hire or touring work.

So in answer to your question, theoretically from 2020 everything should be DDA, although there are exceptions that allow limited operation of non-compliant vehicles.

Also, closed services (schools and contract services that aren't available to the general public) are excluded.

 

[Titfield]

The rules only apply to vehicles with a capacity exceeding 22 passengers.

Thus for example the minibuses used by easyBus on their airport scheduled services are excluded.

 

[Martin1988]

Thanks to those who took the time to respond and explain this. It makes a lot more sense now.

 

[CD]

Also I have been told the 7500KG weight quoted is gross weight including a full load of passengers, not just the unladen weight.
Otherwise all Solos and many midi-buses would not comply after 31/12/14.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Also I have been told the 7500KG weight quoted is gross weight including a full load of passengers, not just the unladen weight.
Otherwise all Solos and many midi-buses would not comply after 31/12/14.

Solos can be brought up to scratch hence Stagecoach refurbing ex First X reg examples

 

[Robertj21a]

Also I have been told the 7500KG weight quoted is gross weight including a full load of passengers, not just the unladen weight.
Otherwise all Solos and many midi-buses would not comply after 31/12/14.

Yes, it's gross weight.

 

[northwichcat]

The rules only apply to vehicles with a capacity exceeding 22 passengers.

So if an operator reduced the capacity of their buses they could get around the requirements? I know in the past some operators removed seats from Mercedes midi buses and made them no standing so that they could be operated on a mini bus licence.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Otherwise all Solos and many midi-buses would not comply after 31/12/14.

So why don't the 57 reg Optare Solo M950SL comply?

 

[mbonwick]

57 plate Solos of any type will comply. Unless post-delivery modifications have been made (e.g. removing the wheelchair bay)

 

[Robertj21a]

.
Any bus built after the Act took effect must comply. I've got lost where a 57-reg Solo came into the story.

 

[northwichcat]

.
Any bus built after the Act took effect must comply. I've got lost where a 57-reg Solo came into the story.

The user CD suggested all Solos don't comply so I gave a modern example of a Solo which isn't a Solo SR and asked why doesn't it comply.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How will 1st gen solos fall foul of the upcoming DDA regs?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How will 1st gen solos fall foul of the upcoming DDA regs?

Depends if they have wheelchair ramps, ironing boards etc

 

[starrymarkb]

How will 1st gen solos fall foul of the upcoming DDA regs?

Portable Ramps rather then Integrated, colours of interior grab poles, stop button positions, Front side and Rear destination equipment etc. Modifying them is possible, it's just a case of is it worth it for an S or V reg Solo?

 

[ECML180]

Sometimes they're modified away from DDA for contract requirements too, for example I've seen a Solo with a cupboard fitted in the disabled space for a shuttle bus that carries cargo and internal mail between a companies sites.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sometimes they're modified away from DDA for contract requirements too, for example I've seen a Solo with a cupboard fitted in the disabled space for a shuttle bus that carries cargo and internal mail between a companies sites.

Though would that be a closed service where DDA wouldn't be a consideration?

 

[jon0844]

Are side and rear displays required on buses - and must they ALWAYS be used? I ask this as loads of buses that serve Hatfield don't have them working, or on the manual blinds, show things like 000 or just the route from an earlier service.

I have pointed this out to the bus operator who did reply saying they acknowledged it was a problem and they're trying to get drivers to set them correctly, but I got the impression that they don't really care as it's still the same now as it was a year ago.

If it was important it would become a 'must-do-at-all-costs' thing and drivers would be in deep trouble if they didn't - and they'd be independently inspected by someone. Thus, the problem would have been solved. But seeing as nothing has changed, they obviously don't see it as a problem.

And as for the front displays, well there are plenty of buses with displays that are so faded as to be virtually unreadable even by me (and I'd say I am fortunate - for now - to have excellent vision without the need for glasses), or off completely.. and supplemented by the number printed on an A4 sheet of paper lying on the dash or taped to the glass.

I can't imagine any London bus being allowed out like that. And I've never EVER seen a London bus without working displays, which suggests the bus would be taken out of service if a blind was faulty.

 

[northwichcat]

I can't imagine any London bus being allowed out like that. And I've never EVER seen a London bus without working displays, which suggests the bus would be taken out of service if a blind was faulty.

I've heard a bus without a working destination display is indeed declared not fit for passenger service in London.

In Cheshire we finish up with things like:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/buses7675/5977883469/
And even worse:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6128/5979476506_a172c3069e_z.jpg (Not always with the destination number on a blind)

Neither of those are still in use but the same idea is still applied.

The Solo pictured in the first image was frequently used on an evening service and for some reason at random times the destination display started showing "Not In Service" behind the cardboard destination they'd erected and made it completely illegible when it was dark.

 

[mbonwick]

Are side and rear displays required on buses - and must they ALWAYS be used?

For DDA compliance - yes to both.

There is a slight exception where prominent rear branding for a service can stand in for a rear destination display. This is the case with the new Van Hool Astromegas for Oxford Tube.

 

[ECML180]

Though would that be a closed service where DDA wouldn't be a consideration?

Yes, sorry wasn't clear. Just meaning to show that a more modern vehicle isn't necessarily compliant.

In Cheshire we finish up with things like:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/buses7675/5977883469/
And even worse:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6128/5979476506_a172c3069e_z.jpg (Not always with the destination number on a blind)

Neither of those are still in use but the same idea is still applied.

https://flic.kr/p/az3gpj

This is the worst I've seen, seeing as the '4' is backwards. It would be interesting to have a contest for the worst example of destination displays any of us can find!

 

[northwichcat]

https://flic.kr/p/az3gpj

This is the worst I've seen, seeing as the '4' is backwards. It would be interesting to have a contest for the worst example of destination displays any of us can find!

I think this is worse: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7328/10995851226_14e6c37426_z.jpg

It looks like the destination display is showing something so you'd automatically look at that, but the destination and service number are shown on the handwritten pieces of paper.

 

[ECML180]

I think this is worse: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7328/10995851226_14e6c37426_z.jpg

It looks like the destination display is showing something so you'd automatically look at that, but the destination and service number are shown on the handwritten pieces of paper.

Unfortunately it was supposed to be running service 4, which wasn't shown in the window. I can't remember whether it had either another number or just an empty plastic wallet.

At the end of the day what's worse is quite subjective, I'd personally say that the example you provide the operator has clearly tried to program a blind, even if it isn't working and so has mitigating factors! Whereas Redline in my photo never really bothered with working blinds, legal lettering or even seating/standing capacities. You can usually tell how good a company is by their attempts with destination displays.

 

[jon0844]

My parents have buses near them advertising daily and weekly tickets and social media on the front display, showing for longer than the route number. Not sure how anyone ever thought this was a good idea.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Every bus locally has had orange number and destination displays for a good few years now, some have them all sides.

Years ago the 2nd gen Spectras (low floor and kneeling), the rear blinds (manual) broke down so much that they never got fixed in the end