DDA deadlines (PSVAR)

[Surreyman]

As the deadlines get closer I thought I would start a thread on this subject.

We are now 6 months away from the first deadline (01/01/2015) for minibuses under 7500kg & 18 months away (01/01/2016) for larger Single deckers.

I have had a load of feedback from people 'in the know' on this site and others over the last 2 years, so am considerably wiser on this topic than I used to be!

As the first deadline mainly impacts vehicles of the size of the Mercedes Vario,

First question; -

Can a Vario, with what is essentially a bus shell body but fitted with coach seats be classified as a bus or a coach? (may have seat belts fitted).
(Does Vosa or indeed the Dft require that a vehicle be classified as one or the other?)
There are a number of vehicles of this type owned by many small coach operators used for private hire/school contracts etc, a few are still used on registered bus services i.e Western Greyhound.

Second question: -

If an operator has a contract for a school service which he has also registered as a public service, is there any reason why he could not de-register it (i.e not available to general public) in order to continue operating non-DDA/PSVAR compliant vehicles?

 

[mbonwick]

Q1: Anything can be registered as a coach as far as I'm aware - the main difference being no standees permitted. I can see quite a few operators using this 'loophole' to allow them to use Varios etc for a while longer (if indeed Varios are under 7.5t - I'm not sure they are)

Q2: The DfT keep changing their minds on school/contract services. Current line is that DDA compliance is to be decided in the contract terms; ie. unless the contract specifies it, DDA compliant vehicles don't have to be used.
Clearly for this though, the service would have to be registered as contract/works - not a normal stopping service.

 

[Robertj21a]

Q1: Anything can be registered as a coach as far as I'm aware - the main difference being no standees permitted. I can see quite a few operators using this 'loophole' to allow them to use Varios etc for a while longer (if indeed Varios are under 7.5t - I'm not sure they are)

Q2: The DfT keep changing their minds on school/contract services. Current line is that DDA compliance is to be decided in the contract terms; ie. unless the contract specifies it, DDA compliant vehicles don't have to be used.
Clearly for this though, the service would have to be registered as contract/works - not a normal stopping service.

.
It's probably the same thing, but re Q2, my understanding is that any bus service available to the general public must use DDA-compliant vehicles from the appropriate date. A School/contract service will be excluded as long as it does not accept the general public.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

.
It's probably the same thing, but re Q2, my understanding is that any bus service available to the general public must use DDA-compliant vehicles from the appropriate date. A School/contract service will be excluded as long as it does not accept the general public.

Someone better tell Stagecoach Perth then, most of the school services that they have in Perth, a lot of them double up as a passenger service and usually 9 times out of 10, the services are ran with Olympian's...

 

[South Westerly]

Someone better tell Stagecoach Perth then, most of the school services that they have in Perth, a lot of them double up as a passenger service and usually 9 times out of 10, the services are ran with Olympian's...

As Olympians are double deckers they don't have to comply until 2017, as I am sure they know, so no need to tell them!

 

[mbonwick]

There's still plenty time left yet - and besides, East Scotland will have V reg Tridents available from Fife contract losses from next week.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

As Olympians are double deckers they don't have to comply until 2017, as I am sure they know, so no need to tell them!

This is Perth remember, they would still be running PS's if they could get away with it...

 

[mbonwick]

They could run PSs until 31 December 2015 if they wanted to. Fact is they've replaced them with ALX300s.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

They could run PSs until 31 December 2015 if they wanted to. Fact is they've replaced them with ALX300s.

I wondered why the ALX300's were appearing on service 15 and 47. They services were PS hotspot's when they were still doing the rounds...

 

[Surreyman]

There's still plenty time left yet - and besides, East Scotland will have V reg Tridents available from Fife contract losses from next week.

Those V reg Tridents will be presumably be Non - DDA (Being pre 2001) unless they have been modified/certified?

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Those V reg Tridents will be presumably be Non - DDA (Being pre 2001) unless they have been modified/certified?

I'm presuming they're ex London, so when they got the middle doors removed would they be able to install a ramp at the front?

 

[mbonwick]

They are non-DDA, but the point was more that stock will be available to replace the Olympians.

Ramp installation is perfectly possible and I believe theses Tridents have had it done.

 

[Stan Drews]

I'd expect Perth/Blair to keep the seat-belt fitted Olympians, which are all used on closed school contracts, at least until the current contracts come to an end. I can't imagine they'd be in a hurry to spend money fitting belts to Tridents, which are more costly to run, if they don't have to.

 

[mbonwick]

Ooo, I'd forgotten about that. Don't think the R-VPU Olympians at Perth are seatbelted though?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

What's the setup with TJ Walsh of Halifax, as half of their fleet are non DDA breadvans. I did overhear that they may jack it in when the DDA regs do come in.

 

[Robertj21a]

They are non-DDA, but the point was more that stock will be available to replace the Olympians.

Ramp installation is perfectly possible and I believe theses Tridents have had it done.

Fitting a ramp is only one part of the many requirements to make a bus compliant with DDA legislation.

Robert

 

[Surreyman]

What's the setup with TJ Walsh of Halifax, as half of their fleet are non DDA breadvans. I did overhear that they may jack it in when the DDA regs do come in.

I think theres a fair number of mercedes minibuses run by independents around Clydeside to the west of Glasgow that may be in the same position.

 

[Deerfold]

What's the setup with TJ Walsh of Halifax, as half of their fleet are non DDA breadvans. I did overhear that they may jack it in when the DDA regs do come in.

Is it still half the fleet? I can't remember the last time I saw one when passing through Halifax and Sowerby Bridge.

Given the rate they've been getting new buses I'd be surprised if they just jacked it in.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I think theres a fair number of mercedes minibuses run by independents around Clydeside to the west of Glasgow that may be in the same position.

McGill's still run a lot of Varios around Greenock that they inherited from Arriva...

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Is it still half the fleet? I can't remember the last time I saw one when passing through Halifax and Sowerby Bridge.

Given the rate they've been getting new buses I'd be surprised if they just jacked it in.

They have about six Primo's and a couple of Merc minubuses (which are used on the Elland and East Calderdale services so E3, E5, E7, E8. E9 257 and 258), the rest are the breadvans.

 

[ECML180]

(if indeed Varios are under 7.5t - I'm not sure they are)

I think ours were around 5.5t but they've been gone a while so my memory may not be brilliant.

Fitting a ramp is only one part of the many requirements to make a bus compliant with DDA legislation.

Robert

I'd imagine it's the hardest part though, that and wiring on a button on the outside by the doors. Other than that it's almost all standard issue.

 

[Deerfold]

They have about six Primo's and a couple of Merc minubuses (which are used on the Elland and East Calderdale services so E3, E5, E7, E8. E9 257 and 258), the rest are the breadvans.

This fleetlist suggests they have 15 Primos (misspelt "Primas" but googling the regs confirms pics of Primos), 3 Bluebird Orion Pluses and an Optare Solo.

http://www.soes.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/docs/fleets/tjw.pdf

With a fleet size of 36, that's more than half DDA compliant.

 

[Robertj21a]

Travel West Midlands - or National Express - or whatever they're called today still has a large number of single deckers with P/R/S/T/V registrations. All of these are, presumably, not compliant with DDA regulations and will need to be withdrawn by the end of next year.

Either they've modified some to make them compliant (possible, they did do some double-deckers) or there's a large single deck order due for delivery over the next 18 months.

Anyone know ?

Robert