W, Z3, A and B class trams in Melbourne have all exceeded 35 years of service. The Z3, A and B class trams are still widely operational, although there are plans to replace them from 2025 with low floor rolling stock.
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Croydon Tram Shortage.
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W, Z3, A and B class trams in Melbourne have all exceeded 35 years of service. The Z3, A and B class trams are still widely operational, although there are plans to replace them from 2025 with low floor rolling stock.
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Snow1964
Established Member
Updates in latest TfL Board Papers
project is now called TRRS (trams replacement rolling stock), covered in section 4.1.7 of the papers
Core proposal is replacement of CR4000 fleet with options for additional trams
project is now called TRRS (trams replacement rolling stock), covered in section 4.1.7 of the papers
Core proposal is replacement of CR4000 fleet with options for additional trams
Edsmith
Member
No service between Sandilands and New Addington or to and from Elmers End at the moment with extra buses running.
boiledbeans2
Member
I used the trams on this day (yesterday) for the first time in a few months. The service was awful. The Wimbledon branch had gaps of 20 minutes in the evening peak, and consequently, the trams were very busy.
Nym
Established Member
Your assumption is correct, and compounded by the ever present decision paralysis of TfL that pre-dates DfT meddling, now with the latter any replacement in under 5 years is unlikely.
WatcherZero
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Indeed full engineering study done and even got as far as inviting expressions of interest for nearby workshops to perform the refurbishment work (which I believe included replacement traction and sections of longitudinal seating to create more standing room) but at a time of near zero interest financing being available the extra cost of buying new was offset by the potential training and spares savings of a homogenous fleet.
Variobahns were short notice as Stadler had completed an order for Bergen early. Any replacement stock would be fairly standard so replacement would be a couple years.
TfL is less affected by DfT meddling. If TfL can reduce their costs with a new fleet they won't need any additional DfT cash. TfL's struggles are their lack of available capital.
EmmanuelConteh
New Member
I’m glad the New Addington line is up and running again, it was a real struggle with it down…
With that being said I don’t see the CR4000s lasting another 3 years and I do believe TfL will try and do what they can to replace them if it’s cheaper and more efficient than repairs
With that being said I don’t see the CR4000s lasting another 3 years and I do believe TfL will try and do what they can to replace them if it’s cheaper and more efficient than repairs
Blindtraveler
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Realistically are there any models that are currently in production that would suit the network? I will miss the cr-4000 but if keeping them on the rails is really this controversial then can understand why they have to go.
Edsmith
Member
I can imagine, I remember the bad old days before Tramlink in New Addington, it's still a bit concerning though with no new rolling stock in the foreseeable future.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Unlike our main line operations, technical standards on British tramways are similar enough to Continental ones that several suppliers' standard designs should be able to operate with fairly minor alterations. As mentioned above, the Stadler vehicles were actually built for another city but diverted to Croydon.
There is a decent number of rolling stock for TfL to consider from existing manufacturers like the CAF Urbos which runs in quite a lot of places but also is a known quantity in the UK as it is used in Edinburgh and the West Midlands, the Alstom Citadis is another as well as newer trams like Stadler's TINA which is getting ordered across Europe.
The Urbos has got a bit of a reputation for cracks which take it out of service however (just ask Birmingham!) - perhaps not the ideal replacement for a fleet already struggling with subpar availability.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
On Saturday 8th I had occasion to travel from Wimbledon towards Croydon; there appeared to be one of each type in Therapia Lane with bits missing - presumably "Christmas Trees"? 2562 was the Variobahn one - I'm not 100% sure which one the CR4000 one was.
renegademaster
Established Member
Surprisingly , full service seems to be currently back, though will probably only last a week or two.
Wimbledon to Therapia Lane is closed next Friday for a week due to engineering works so the tram levels elsewhere should be okay.
urpert
Member
Someone had better tell STIBTrams don't generally last as long as trains, t68s were about 20, t69s just 15. the super tram ones in sheffield are the exception, but that's probably because they're German!
(Photo taken last Wednesday)
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Leedsbusman
Member
Ah but the spare fleet margins in Brussels - and many other cities -Someone had better tell STIB
(Photo taken last Wednesday)
are much higher than UK which tends to run its trams like it’s buses. I comparing once and the average annual mileage in Brussels was about 1/2 of a UK system.
boiledbeans2
Member
There are quite a few places with pre-WW2 trams in daily regular operation. A few which I can think of off the top of my head are Lisbon, Milan, Turin. The Lisbon and Milan heritage trams are probably more tourist oriented, but the Turin trams are still used by regular commuters.
Though in these examples, the trams have been heavily modified, such as new traction equipment, or in the Turin example, the permanent merger of two separate trams into an articulated tram.
Though in these examples, the trams have been heavily modified, such as new traction equipment, or in the Turin example, the permanent merger of two separate trams into an articulated tram.
Busaholic
Veteran Member
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Are the 1943-1946 built PCC cars still in regular service in Boston, USA? They were not operated as 'historic vehicles and were not heavily modified either, so far as I now.
Snow1964
Established Member
Brussels has recently introduced Flexity TNG (Tram new Generation) from Alstom (inherited from Bombardier)
Stadler make the TINA range
Siemens make the Avenio range (both low and higher floor)
Skoda Transportation has ForCity range (being made for Bonn & elsewhere)
Hitachi has the Sirio range (mainly in Italy, following takeover of Ansaldo-Breda)
Astra Vagoane Arad is supplying Bucharest
So plenty of possibilities, but I don't know their compatibility with Croydon system
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Also the CAF design used in West Midlands and Edinburgh, and the Alstom Citadis, probably the most successful of the standard platforms, used in Dublin and Nottingham.
With the exception of Nottingham where street widths dictated a narrower vehicle, and Manchester with high floors, the UK tram networks have stuck pretty closely to the European norms on vehicle dimensions. All of the above product ranges can be supplied in different lengths, widths, and other variations to suit individual networks. I wouldn't expect technical compatibility to be a major concern for Croydon tram replacement, although Network Rail may have some concerns about electromagnetic compatibility with nearby railways.
I think the Trieste-Opicina trams are pre-war too.
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