Cross-Glasgow Tunnel

[MarkyT]

The most massive benefit would be to avoid the wind and rain

Of which there is a fair bit being in the west of Scotland!

View attachment 62313
Posted by Andrew Stephen on Facebook, again from the 1980s, trains to run in opposite direction to normal

Nice! Do you know the reasoning behind the reversed running direction? Presumably something to do with how the new tunnel was to be tied in to existing lines at each end.

 

[jagardner1984]

This is exactly the benefit that I think is being overlooked. If we are to achieve modal shift at the level required for Climate and other reasons - the size of Queen Street and of Central will be a problem. The fundamental concept of a terminus station of a historical, basically fixed size is an issue. So even if this achieves nothing else than taking a terminating service from Queen Street and letting it terminate in Ayr instead, or anywhere else that allows you expand the terminating point easier, thats a huge benefit.

If on top of that you can change from your Pendolino at Central, onto the subway at St Enoch, or into the Queen Street Low Level platforms, or on to an Anniesland shuttle, all without sampling a spot of the Glasgow rain (!), then you start heading towards the integrated network Glasgow really needs.

And who knows, maybe with Electrification spreading, maybe we could see Pendolinos pulling into Perth station in the foreseeable future ! Certainly making any tunnel station suitable for the longest trains serving either station, and then some, would seem very wise ...

So when I said "single stop in Glasgow", I mean in as far as the two mainline stations would then be essentially one.

 

[najaB]

It does, but they don't link into existing surface lines within a mile or so of the deep tunnel

Then push the tunnel portals further out until you get an acceptable gradient.

 

[NotATrainspott]

I think the Croy-bound portal would be grade-separated and join on to the mainline at Eastfield so that there would be as few conflicts as possible at Cowlairs. Otherwise you'll have future hourly WHL services in each direction causing a timetabling faff. If you want to maximise the number of trains an hour to run on the rail network, then every extra conflict point creates somewhere that timetables can clash and fewer paths can be made available. The Cumbernauld-bound portal might need to be beyond Barnhill but there seems to be a reasonable amount of land available for construction, including the launching of TBMs.

Since this is a report about the Glasgow urban area it's not surprising that it doesn't mention the idea of Edinburgh-Glasgow HSR but that also would have some impact on designs for a tunnel. With that, Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High would become a secondary route between the two cities which could be more easily integrated into the tunnel network.

 

[d9009alycidon]

Of which there is a fair bit being in the west of Scotland!

Nice! Do you know the reasoning behind the reversed running direction? Presumably something to do with how the new tunnel was to be tied in to existing lines at each end.

Or most likely that it was drawn by an architect or graphic designer with no knowledge of railway operation (or a German?)

 

[CM]

Then push the tunnel portals further out until you get an acceptable gradient.

And if that can't be done? What do you propose? Demolish half of Glasgow to get a silly wee tunnel that will be of no benefit to anyone?

 

[najaB]

And if that can't be done? What do you propose? Demolish half of Glasgow to get a silly wee tunnel that will be of no benefit to anyone?

I think maybe you don't get how tunnels work. They are, by definition, underground.

No demolition required.

 

[CM]

I think maybe you don't get how tunnels work. They are, by definition, underground.

No demolition required.

Yes, and where do the portals go? To get into a tunnel you have to go from above ground to under the ground through a tunnel portal. So where do you propose they put these portals? It's clearly you who doesn't understand how a tunnel works!

 

[NotATrainspott]

Yes, and where do the portals go? To get into a tunnel you have to go from above ground to under the ground through a tunnel portal. So where do you propose they put these portals? It's clearly you who doesn't understand how a tunnel works!

How big do you think a tunnel portal is? They only need to be long enough for the track level to separate enough from the natural ground level for bored tunnelling to be viable. If necessary, some or all of the portal can then be covered over so that roads and other surface features can be re-instated.

You'd probably put the northern portals at Eastfield and Royston, and the Paisley portal at Shields Road. A second southern portal for the G&SW line to Kilmarnock is something I think should happen, but it might be a bit more challenging to sort out. One option may be to delete the current G&SW to southbound WCML link and use the alignment for the tracks to descend underground. Replacing the G&SW to WCML capability for freight and diversions could either be done by adding a south-east chord north of Pollokshields East, or possibly even a single-track low-speed link from Neilston turnback onto the G&SW and then relying on the route via Cathcart and Newton. I think the first option is more probable, and it looks like a slow single-track curve could be squeezed in with a minimal 200m radius like the Bacon Factory Chord in Ipswich. The railway is already below street level at this point and a short curve could easily be integrated underground beneath any new development on the site.

It does, but they don't link into existing surface lines within a mile or so of the deep tunnel

Er, no. Go and look at Stratford and the odd kinda-sorta deep tube line linking Leytonstone to Newbury Park on the Central line.

Also, what 'Deep Tube' means depends on the city. The existing Glasgow train tunnels aren't that deep, and neither is the Clyde. A new tunnel could easily be deeper than all existing infrastructure in the city and yet not as deep as some lines in London.