Could the safety authorities ban black fronts on trains?

[yoyothehobo]

OK ill leave this black front love in alone. Personally I think it bizarre, and next time I get dazzled by a Crossrail 345 I will be reporting to the relevant authorities through CIRAS. This nonsense needs to stop.

This nonsense needs to stop.

Behave and grow up. You have gone from complaining that it cant be distinguished from other lights, to saying it is dazzling. Where are you standing to get dazzled by a cross rail 345?

Having worked on the railway you can see the lights from a LOT further away than a yellow front.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

I'm not convinced that black paint reflects any worse than any other colour. I've been dazzled by an approaching modern train, and it was a 331 with a yellow end. I think what is actually doing the dazzling is the large raked back windscreen on these modern trains

 

[InkyScrolls]

Surely by definition black actually dazzles the least?

 

[Bertie the bus]

OK ill leave this black front love in alone. Personally I think it bizarre, and next time I get dazzled by a Crossrail 345 I will be reporting to the relevant authorities through CIRAS. This nonsense needs to stop.

That would have been the professional thing to do in the first place if you consider it to be a safety risk instead of making bizarre and contradictory posts on a mainly enthusiast forum.

 

[dosxuk]

OK ill leave this black front love in alone. Personally I think it bizarre, and next time I get dazzled by a Crossrail 345 I will be reporting to the relevant authorities through CIRAS. This nonsense needs to stop.

The problem is you're trying to argue that it's bizarre because of various technicalities that don't stand up to scrutiny, when what you're actually objecting to is the aesthetics of the black front.

A black front is no more susceptible to glare than any other paint colour - if you want to get rid of reflective surfaces on the front of trains, get rid of the windows. The current standards for lights on the front of trains are visible from further and more effectively, both day and night, than the yellow paintwork.

If you were arguing for matt surfaces and reduction of reflective areas on the front of trains, or for the reduction in brightness / better angling of lights, to reduce the dazzle effect on on-coming drivers, then you've got some good arguments worth discussing. But that's not the route you've taken - instead you've advanced the idea that elderly people will be confused at night by lights coming towards them on a railway line and not know whether or not it's a train. I'm sorry, but that's the sort of nonsense that needs stopping.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Surely by definition black actually dazzles the least?

Yep, certainly matt black is used to prevent dazzle as seen frequently on the bonnets of rally cars and police vehicles. I would say its the glossiness of new paint in any colour that causes reflections and this will reduce as the paint ages. The windscreen on the other hand will stay shiny and clean and will always catch the sun

 

[InkyScrolls]

Yep, certainly matt black is used to prevent dazzle as seen frequently on the bonnets of rally cars and police vehicles. I would say its the glossiness of new paint in any colour that causes reflections and this will reduce as the paint ages. The windscreen on the other hand will stay shiny and clean and will always catch the sun

Sounds like we should paint the windscreen yellow then, as a compromise.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Sounds like we should paint the windscreen yellow then, as a compromise.

10/10 for style, minus several million for good thinking

 

[InkyScrolls]

I'll take that.

 

[skyhigh]

Personally I think it bizarre, and next time I get dazzled by a Crossrail 345 I will be reporting to the relevant authorities through CIRAS.

So you'll be reporting that you were dazzled by... black paint...? And that if that paint was yellow, you wouldn't have been dazzled?

Unless you've now pivoted to suggest the lights are a bad idea, not the non-yellow front.

 

[irish_rail]

Right so anyone who hasn't been in the cab of a train don't bother having a dig. I actually do it for a living. With the crossrail 345s when the sun is low in the sky it has a habit of reflecting off the shiny black front. Yes Matt black would probably be fine. Why they have insisted on shiny black I just don't get. And I've never had this issue with a yellow front. So please don't tell me I'm imagining things. Driving onto the blocks at Paddington with stars in your eyes is more than a bit unnerving. And the issue was reported as it happens , but presumably got brushed under the carpet for fear of the cost of having to repaint an entire fleet.

 

[skyhigh]

Right so anyone who hasn't been in the cab of a train don't bother having a dig. I actually do it for a living.

And so do I. And yes, I drive against TPE units with shiny black fronts. I honestly don't see it as an issue. The lights are what is blinding - and a TPE 802 is little different to a 195 with a yellow front.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

How does a 345 with a yellow front compare with one with a black front?
You don't know because there aren't any. And if your dazzled, how do know its the black paint and not the glass that's reflecting the sun?

 

[CBlue]

That would have been the professional thing to do in the first place if you consider it to be a safety risk instead of making bizarre and contradictory posts on a mainly enthusiast forum.

Indeed. If the OP is truly a driver its pretty unprofessional to say the least. I'd hope his employer isn't reading this and equally hasn't figured out who he is!

 

[irish_rail]

Indeed. If the OP is truly a driver its pretty unprofessional to say the least. I'd hope his employer isn't reading this and equally hasn't figured out who he is!

Hmmm except where have I said who my employer is. I haven't. Just that I'm a driver. Or maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm a walter mitty character. Who knows?! Time for this thread to be locked please mods....

 

[InkyScrolls]

Someone's getting touchy.

While I dislike black train ends too, that's purely because I quite liked the tradition of yellow ends - to me it made the 'Railway' seem more cohesive. But I certainly couldn't say black ends are any more reflective than yellow ends, and I say that as someone who encounters them every day at work.

 

[TurboMan]

Right so anyone who hasn't been in the cab of a train don't bother having a dig. I actually do it for a living. With the crossrail 345s when the sun is low in the sky it has a habit of reflecting off the shiny black front. Yes Matt black would probably be fine. Why they have insisted on shiny black I just don't get. And I've never had this issue with a yellow front. So please don't tell me I'm imagining things. Driving onto the blocks at Paddington with stars in your eyes is more than a bit unnerving. And the issue was reported as it happens , but presumably got brushed under the carpet for fear of the cost of having to repaint an entire fleet.

I drive trains into Paddington and I don't recognise at all what you're saying about 345s.

 

[Neptune]

Whilst I would never say that the OP doesn’t have issues with the black front ends of trains (which nobody else at the coalface seems to suffer) they should not have gone down the road of making a personal opinion about aesthetics and preference for yellow front ends as that just makes it sound like they are making an excuse because they don’t like the fact that lighting has improved dramatically on UK trains to the level of those in other countries to make the yellow front end redundant because, tradition.

Driving onto the blocks at Paddington with stars in your eyes is more than a bit unnerving.

Surely if it was that bad you would have stopped your train immediately and reported it to the signaller. So it’s either that it isn’t as bad as you’re making out or you are happy to carry on towards the buffers in a highly complex area in your partially sighted state? Maybe if you and all the other drivers approaching Paddington did that everytime you were ‘blinded‘ by a 345 then someone would sit up and listen although others don’t seem to ’suffer’ the same problem.

FWIW I’ve never been blinded by a TPE or HT 802, low sun or otherwise.