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Could Compartment Coaches Work Again?

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Rail Blues

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Leaving aside the space implications, it would be a red letter day for the Harvey Weinstein's of this world. Even though I am less likely to be the victim of a sexual assault, I don't relish the idea of being rammed into a compartment with 5 boozed up and lairy oil rig workers fresh off the rigs.
 
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Dougal2345

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There wouldn't be any scope for reduction of the longitudinal length of a compartment over open open car seating bays because:
a) people's legs and feet are if anything bigger than days of yore​
That may be the case in the real world, but sadly UK coach seating planners take their cue from the architect of legend who, when deciding the height of his new river bridge, measured the funnel heights of all the shipping, and built his bridge a little over the average height.
Personally I never care for partitions and such that reduce the impression of length within a coach. Travelling in coach 1 of an E320 the other day, I noted that someone had nailed up bits of chipboard half way along, turning what should have been a long, spacious coach into a couple of claustrophobic "compartments" with a zig-zag in the middle.
 

Bletchleyite

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Personally I never care for partitions and such that reduce the impression of length within a coach. Travelling in coach 1 of an E320 the other day, I noted that someone had nailed up bits of chipboard half way along, turning what should have been a long, spacious coach into a couple of claustrophobic "compartments" with a zig-zag in the middle.

The thing is that one person's claustrophobic is another person's cosy. (Think the Class 390 interior as a good example of this)
 

Dr_Paul

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I remember the compartment stock on the Southern Region, and I quite liked the old 4-SUBs where, in quieter periods, one could have a whole compartment to oneself, nice and quiet, and sit and read or just look out of the window. With other stock, there would be compartments with a side corridor; again, that was a nice way to travel. It's fun to travel on, say, the Bluebell Railway where many of the carriages are like this.

But the days of having such stock on national railway lines are long gone. Other people here have noted accessibility problems and security problems. There's also structural matters: how would compartment stock, whether individual or corridor-linked, manage with the wide sliding doors necessary on commuter services? Open carriages, perhaps with some floor-to-ceiling semi-partitions that do not protrude into the aisle, are the present and future.

Also, the trend seems to be further away from any vestigial 'compartmentalisation' towards longitudinal bench seats with a very wide aisle: the stock on the Euston to Watford, and North and East London Lines are all like that, and whilst for enthusiasts like us it's a right pain not being able easily to look out of the windows (not least at interesting points such as Harlesden and Stewarts Lane), it suits these lines as large numbers of passengers can be carried and can swiftly board and alight.
 
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It would really only work on long-distance journeys, in terms of comfort, but as a common practice with railways in Britain, capacity is key.
I know this seems like a stupid idea, and it's not about "getting the crayons" out as some poeple like to say. Plus, there would be a lot of ifs and buts.

However... could they make a return?

If each compartment wasn't as big as the old style, could a compartment coach carry as many people as a MK3? Bearing in mind you have three people to a bench seat and two benches per compartment.

Groups would be able to sit together in a more private area. Would be great if services were reservation only so everyone knows they have a seat. If they were reservation only, those who are travelling from Edinburgh to London could all sit together, and thus wouldn't be disturbed by people getting their bags, or whatever.

Minus, what happens if you're stuck with someone that doesn't look very nice, or smelly. If you're a male put with laods of females or vice versa, may feel intimidating.

Yes, I know it probably wouldn't work, but with a bit of thought, could it?
 

eMeS

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Interesting - my interpretation of the subject line was not that of a corridor coach with compartments, but of slam door stock as I enjoyed(?) on the CLC from Chassen Road to Manchester Central back in the 1940s.
 

AY1975

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In Germany they have (or had until recently) some coaches with a rather odd layout: there was a central aisle with seats in an open plan layout on one side, and individual compartments on the other but still with only two seats each side of the compartment so smaller than in a traditional side corridor coach.

I suppose a similar layout could potentially be made to work in Britain, although the more restrictive British loading gauge might make it more difficult. There could be a mixture of facing and unidirectional seats on one side of the coach, with 2+2 compartments on the other side.
 

alistairlees

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I travelled from Berlin to Poznan a few years ago on the Berlin-Warsaw-Express, 1st class with a cheap Polen-Spezial ticket. 1st class has 6 seat compartments.

Getting on at Berlin Hbf I found that the coach was fully reserved, and my seat was in a compartment already occupied by 4 other adults (a couple and two other women), 1 "paying age" child and 4 other children too young to have to pay. The 5 kids belonged to the two women, who'd also filled the compo with lots of bags so it was almost impossible for me to even get into the compartment and I didn't even try.
(Fortunately on departure I found an unclaimed seat in another compo so I claimed that one instead...)

That's the problem with compos, UK or elsewhere. They're great when you're one your own or with mates and can spread out and have your own private space, but even one other person can make your journey uncomfortable*. A full compo, like in the example above, can make your journey almost intolerable.

* Such as the day I travelled from Wien Westbahnhof to Linz. I'd bagged an empty compo towards the front of the train, but just before we left an extremely angry-looking woman stalked in, slammed the door shut, sat down next to the door, put her feet up on the seat opposite and fell asleep. Not a problem, perhaps, unless you want to go to the toilet and don't particularly want to wake someone who may well be very aggressive...

Last August I travelled from Berlin to Gdansk, also 1st class and also in a compartment which was for 6. There were three or four other people in there, and the air con / ventilation (can't remember which) wasn't really working (maybe no-one else wanted the window open). So it got very stuffy. Oh, and the lighting failed, so it was impossible to read anything (even in August). So I went and sat in the dining car for almost the entire journey - open plan, at table friendly service, cheap food and drink, and mostly a table to myself (occasionally joined by other passengers, including a girl who brought her own sandwiches and was promptly chucked out of the dining car).

Moral of the story: compartments often don't work that well, really, even in 1st class.
 

30907

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In Germany they have (or had until recently) some coaches with a rather odd layout: there was a central aisle with seats in an open plan layout on one side, and individual compartments on the other but still with only two seats each side of the compartment so smaller than in a traditional side corridor coach.
They still exist, but are becoming rarer - they were rebuilt from East German stock for the expanded InterRegio services in the early 90s, and are not air conditioned.
 

yorksrob

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Last August I travelled from Berlin to Gdansk, also 1st class and also in a compartment which was for 6. There were three or four other people in there, and the air con / ventilation (can't remember which) wasn't really working (maybe no-one else wanted the window open). So it got very stuffy. Oh, and the lighting failed, so it was impossible to read anything (even in August). So I went and sat in the dining car for almost the entire journey - open plan, at table friendly service, cheap food and drink, and mostly a table to myself (occasionally joined by other passengers, including a girl who brought her own sandwiches and was promptly chucked out of the dining car).

Moral of the story: compartments often don't work that well, really, even in 1st class.

I don't buy that conclusion, because I've enjoyed several perfectly enjoyable journeys in compartments on BR (and one abroad). mostly in standard as well.

What's more, they were more enjoyable journeys than they would have been had they been in the equivalent saloon.
 

yorksrob

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I'd say that in both types of stock it depends on many things: your fellow passengers, the route you're on, the layout of the stock, the mood you're in and so on.
You can have excellent journeys in compartments and awful ones too; equally you can have excellent journeys in open stock (for example, on scenic lines if the seating allows you to enjoy the view through a number of windows rather than just the one you're sat next to) or awful ones. I don't believe it's ever black and white.

Indeed. Certainly no excuse for not having them!
 

alistairlees

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I don't buy that conclusion, because I've enjoyed several perfectly enjoyable journeys in compartments on BR (and one abroad). mostly in standard as well.

What's more, they were more enjoyable journeys than they would have been had they been in the equivalent saloon.

My conclusion's fine, as it relates to my experience. Your conclusion's fine, as it relates to your experience. The issue here is that it's just opinions, there's no actual data.

As an aside, I do find the lack of tables in compartments frustrating. And yes, I have also had perfectly reasonable journeys in compartments.
 

yorksrob

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My conclusion's fine, as it relates to my experience. Your conclusion's fine, as it relates to your experience. The issue here is that it's just opinions, there's no actual data.

As an aside, I do find the lack of tables in compartments frustrating. And yes, I have also had perfectly reasonable journeys in compartments.

Good. Then there are no 'morals' to be had, one way or the other.
 
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