Could banning cars from City Centres work?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes. Would still be unnecessary congestion

How far advanced are Government's plans in terms of the provision of electric car charging points in city centre locations? Have you any evidence to show that the said congestion has been evaluated by official sources?

 

[PaulMc7]

How far advanced are Government's plans in terms of the provision of electric car charging points in city centre locations? Have you any evidence to show that the said congestion has been evaluated by official sources?

Genuinely curious here. How would electric cars benefit other than low emission? Barely seen any charging points around here too in Glasgow. The whole point of the title was to include all cars and there are not many cities around in the UK where cars being removed from their centres wouldn't benefit at all

 

[The Ham]

I always have wondered why people are so opposed to banning cars from an area, when those very same people probably fairly enjoy the setup of places like Center Parcs or Butlins where cars are predominantly banned from site.

Now I know things are quite different when you're on holiday rather than day to day life.

However for most a 5 minute walk to their car first thing isn't going to change their day by very much.

Provide a primary school, shops and other facilities on the edge of of the car free zone so that they are easily serviced. With roads between car free zones being raised up to allow at grade travel to the next zone with a secondary school for a few car free zones.

The car parks would be covered by CCTV, with barrier entry/exit (vehicles and pedestrians) to identify those within the parking area. These parking areas could be under/over the shops/the school/other facilities to maximise land use.

There could be cargo bikes which could be booked to transport shopping, whilst a delivery hub (so no waiting in for deliveries) which would collect larger items and then deliver them at an agreed time.

Likewise refuse collection could be undertaken by a vehicle, but generally vehicles within the car free zone would be fairly rare. Even if there were buses going through the zones.

This would free up a lot more space for planting, parks and gardens than would otherwise be the case.

Children wouldn't need to cross roads to get to school and so would likely be able to walk or cycle to school at a younger age than they would otherwise be aloud to.

There would be business parks/office buildings around and about as well, these would also share the car parks (this would reduce the overall amount of parking required). However it's likely that there would be a good number of local residents working near where they live as they then wouldn't need to own a car. Reducing their outgoings by £2,500 to £3,500 and meaning that they didn't near to earn £3,000 to £4,000 a year to cover those costs.

If there was a train station within the settlement, then that would likely be well used and would increase the scope for those working elsewhere.

Yes it would be quite a cultural shift from what we have at the moment, however I suspect that once people try it that they would prefer it to the more traditional housing layouts. Developers would like it as they could fit more housing into the same area. Parking issues would be less of a problem, as would congestion getting out of hiding estates which is often caused by parked vehicles.

 

[HSTEd]

Why would a newbuild settlement need refuse collections?

Surely it should just have an automatic system has been installed in other places?

Also it is pretty clear that most reasonably priced shops are dying from deliveries, especially since these settlements can be built with rapid delivery infrastructure the likes of which we can scarcely dream of.
EDIT:
My own vision ofthe future involves a system of trenches containing all utilities, for easy maintenance, with robotic forklift guideways connecting cellars in every house.

As well as storage, washing machines etc the cellars would allow packages of up to pallet scale to be sent directly to and from houses.

Automatic parking garages would be provided so everyone has a car parking space in the minimum space possible.
Only foot/cycle paths will separate houses that use modern construction techniques to maximise space, with a cellar and two stories surmounted by a roof garden.

The objective is a large house, significant garden lifestyle with a relatively high achieved population density.

 

[The Ham]

Why would a newbuild settlement need refuse collections?

Surely it should just have an automatic system has been installed in other places?

Also it is pretty clear that most reasonably priced shops are dying from deliveries, especially since these settlements can be built with rapid delivery infrastructure the likes of which we can scarcely dream of.
EDIT:
My own vision ofthe future involves a system of trenches containing all utilities, for easy maintenance, with robotic forklift guideways connecting cellars in every house.

As well as storage, washing machines etc the cellars would allow packages of up to pallet scale to be sent directly to and from houses.

Automatic parking garages would be provided so everyone has a car parking space in the minimum space possible.
Only foot/cycle paths will separate houses that use modern construction techniques to maximise space, with a cellar and two stories surmounted by a roof garden.

The objective is a large house, significant garden lifestyle with a relatively high achieved population density.

I do wonder if you could have a large ground floor dwelling (think bungalow or a couple of ground floor flats) with a town house above over part of it and then a roof garden over the rest. The ground floor properties would have their own gardens or shared gardens.

There could also be community orchards and allotments.

 

[HSTEd]

I do wonder if you could have a large ground floor dwelling (think bungalow or a couple of ground floor flats) with a town house above over part of it and then a roof garden over the rest. The ground floor properties would have their own gardens or shared gardens.

There could also be community orchards and allotments.

Unfortunately roof gardens have not really advanced to the point where they are a substitute for an actual garden.
Sustaining a significant depth on soil on the roof of a multi story building is no easy feat, even if bricks are dispensed with in favour of steel or crosslam framing.

Two stories, roof garden and a cellar with communal (automatic) parking would still enable more than doubling of house and garden usable areas on the same plot density. Half of many exising plots is covered with wasted roof space......

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately roof gardens have not really advanced to the point where they are a substitute for an actual garden.
Sustaining a significant depth on soil on the roof of a multi story building is no easy feat, even if bricks are dispensed with in favour of steel or crosslam framing

It depends what you want in a garden. A good many people, myself included, want somewhere to sit that's pleasant outdoors and don't care for maintenance. The grass is just something you get by default and have to faff with cutting.

If you like gardening and want a traditional garden, the suburbs are better for you than the city.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Unfortunately roof gardens have not really advanced to the point where they are a substitute for an actual garden.
Sustaining a significant depth on soil on the roof of a multi story building is no easy feat, even if bricks are dispensed with in favour of steel or crosslam framing.

Two stories, roof garden and a cellar with communal (automatic) parking would still enable more than doubling of house and garden usable areas on the same plot density. Half of many exising plots is covered with wasted roof space......

That may be a good solution for London's garden squares actually, like in South Ken.

 

[HSTEd]

If you like gardening and want a traditional garden, the suburbs are better for you than the city.

My primary aim was to determine if a suburban lifestyle could be obtained at high population densities which make affordable public transport possible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My primary aim was to determine if a suburban lifestyle could be obtained at high population densities which make affordable public transport possible.

I don't suppose a traditional British one can, no. Though terraced housing (Victorian style) is quite high density despite giving each its own outdoor space. You don't have to concrete over it.

Having said that, if people will walk maybe 1km to a station (which many will, just not to a bus stop) you can probably achieve it using a "beads on a string" type layout typified by Runcorn. OK, Runcorn hasn't been a resounding success, but that's more to do with other social factors than it is to do with the bus service.

 

[HSTEd]

I don't suppose a traditional British one can, no. Though terraced housing (Victorian style) is quite high density despite giving each its own outdoor space. You don't have to concrete over it.

As the newly minted owner of an (admittedly Edwardian) Terrace house, the outdoor space is hardly very roomy.

A roof garden would permit a patio/planter type area on the roof and then a more conventional green garden space at ground level, doubling the available space in the garden without serious issue. (In my case, more than trebling!)
A cellar would allow utility type items to be moved downstairs, opening up yet more space and allowing for an automated forklift-type delivery system without using up space at surface level.
Automated Parking clusters would allow the street to be halved in width, freeing yet more space.

Having said that, if people will walk maybe 1km to a station (which many will, just not to a bus stop) you can probably achieve it using a "beads on a string" type layout typified by Runcorn. OK, Runcorn hasn't been a resounding success, but that's more to do with other social factors than it is to do with the bus service.

A kilometre might be pushing it, but that depends on the terrain layout.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As the newly minted owner of an (admittedly Edwardian) Terrace house, the outdoor space is hardly very roomy.

Roomy no, but it is ground level outdoor space.

A kilometre might be pushing it, but that depends on the terrain layout.

500m is the classic, but a lot of people do walk further than that to stations on systems like LU and Merseyrail. I sometimes walk to Bletchley station which is about 1.5 miles but I am a bit unusual and I would generally rather cycle it as it's a bit boring.

Of course, talking of bikes, people again will cycle to stations, particularly with the advent of things like electric bikes and maybe electric scooters if use of these in a public place is legalised like I believe it should be. They are unlikely to do so in order to use a slow and uncomfortable bus.

FWIW my parents' house to Aughton Park station (Merseyrail) is pretty much dead on 500m and feels a reasonable but not excessive walking distance...

 

[Meerkat]

Bizarrely people are resistant to walking to the shops but will street park a mile away from the station to avoid commuter parking charges....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bizarrely people are resistant to walking to the shops but will street park a mile away from the station to avoid commuter parking charges....

The need to carry the shopping in the former case but not the latter case may well be an issue. People do walk to local shops for a loaf of bread and a pint of milk (though they'll often call in there on the way to/from somewhere else by car), but doing your weekly shop on foot is a nuisance.

 

[Meerkat]

People drive half a mile to their local shop, then park on the pavement to save 50 yards walk!

 

[Bletchleyite]

People drive half a mile to their local shop, then park on the pavement to save 50 yards walk!

Entertainingly, for me to walk to my local shop is about 100 yards, to drive to it is about 500 due to the road layout!

 

[radamfi]

My primary aim was to determine if a suburban lifestyle could be obtained at high population densities which make affordable public transport possible.

It is widely assumed in the English speaking world that you need high densities for public transport. This book

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Transport-Suburbia-Beyond-Automobile-Age/dp/1844077403

blows that out of the water. It shows that good public transport mode share is achieved in Switzerland even in areas of low density. It also confirms that densities in British towns are very high by international standards, and thus the mode share achieved in Britain is very poor by comparison. Los Angeles is supposed to be a hopeless case, the excuse given that it is too spread out, but the book shows that its density is high.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There could also be community orchards and allotments.

Perhaps the logical end to this new-style way of life would be similar to that of the Eloi, one of the two post-human races that featured in the 1895 H.G.Wells novel "The Time Machine".