Connection on Advance Ticket (Any Train?)

[1333jw]

Hello! I have bought my parents an Advance ticket from Brockholes (Penistone Line) to London St. Pancras.

Years ago, when I was a guard, an Advance ticket marked with an operator "+Connections" was always valid on any connecting Northern service. The only train that was mandatory was the high speed/long distance one to London.

In this case, although the ticket says "Valid on specified trains & connections only", the reservation coupon does list the 11:24 train from Brockholes to Sheffield then the 12:37 from Sheffield to London.

Can they still use the one before (10:24) from Brockholes as was the case years ago, or would they be at risk of getting charged extra please?

Thanks very much in advance!

 

[JonathanH]

Can they still use the one before (10:24) from Brockholes as was the case years ago, or would they be at risk of getting charged extra please?

No, there is a risk of being charged extra. All Northern trains are now reservable, which makes the 1124 a 'specified train', not a 'connection'.

In this case, it does seem a fairly tight connection at Sheffield, but a longer connection time must now be specified at the time of booking.

 

[Hadders]

Officially you must travel on the booked itinerary.

Back in the day trains on the Penistone Line were not reservable meaning you weren't tied to a specic train on the &connections leg. Northern has made these trains reservable, not to offer seat reservations but so that they can offer their own Advance fares on them. An unintended consequence is that you officially cannot use an earlier connecting train.

If the connection at Sheffield is missed then your parents are entitled to travel on the next train to St Pancras without penalty. They would also be entitled to claim delay repay.

If booking in future, our own ticketing site allows you to specify additional connection time if you want to bake an earlier train into the itinerary.

 

[robbeech]

They could go to the station in time for the train before and speak to the guard BEFORE they board to ask if they’ll let them travel on the earlier train as they’re worried about a tight connection in Sheffield. In reality most Northern guards are fairly lenient with this but you must ask before you board, and if they do say no there’s not much to do around that immediate area.

 

[Nicholas43]

A good example of the unthinking callousness of the DfT officials who have introduced this madness. It would cost the railway precisely nothing to allow your parents to travel on an earlier train from Brockholes. The officials don’t care that your parents might have good reasons for wanting to arrive at St Pancras at or soon after 1439, or stop to consider that delay repay might be completely inadequate compensation for the stress they will suffer if they do not. If they can be bothered, your parents might do other travellers some service by writing to their MP to complain: that this new trap ensnares innocent travellers, and especially anyone who wishes to allow plenty of time to find an onward train from a possibly late-running connection. Grasping British Railways is not what we were promised.

 

[Hadders]

A good example of the unthinking callousness of the DfT officials who have introduced this madness. It would cost the railway precisely nothing to allow your parents to travel on an earlier train from Brockholes. The officials don’t care that your parents might have good reasons for wanting to arrive at St Pancras at or soon after 1439, or stop to consider that delay repay might be completely inadequate compensation for the stress they will suffer if they do not. If they can be bothered, your parents might do other travellers some service by writing to their MP to complain: that this new trap ensnares innocent travellers, and especially anyone who wishes to allow plenty of time to find an onward train from a possibly late-running connection. Grasping British Railways is not what we were promised.

A flexible ticket could be purchased if flexibility is required.

 

[Nicholas43]

A flexible ticket could be purchased if flexibility is required.

... and money is no object.

 

[JonathanH]

this new trap ensnares innocent travellers, and especially anyone who wishes to allow plenty of time to find an onward train from a possibly late-running connection.

There is no 'new trap'. The passenger is free to book their journey with additional time for connections, something offered on the best booking sites. The principle for advance fares has always been that the booked itinerary must be followed. The only development is that the full itinerary is now fully specified on the face of the ticket.

A good example of the unthinking callousness of the DfT officials who have introduced this madness.

Northern want to offer advances to their passengers, in the way that other operators have for many years. In order to do that they have made their trains reservable.

... and money is no object.

Indeed, which is why it is a good idea to check the itinerary works at the point of booking, before confirming the times.

 

[modernrail]

There is no 'new trap'. The passenger is free to book their journey with additional time for connections, something offered on the best booking sites. The principle for advance fares has always been that the booked itinerary must be followed. The only development is that the full itinerary is now fully specified on the face of the ticket.


Northern want to offer advances to their passengers, in the way that other operators have for many years. In order to do that they have made their trains reservable.


Indeed, which is why it is a good idea to check the itinerary works at the point of booking, before confirming the times.

Sorry JonathanH but it is a new trap. One of the defensive steps a passenger could take to defend against the railways own failings was to take an earlier train on the local journey to guard against the often ridiculously high risk of the railway stuffing it up.

To have to now work out how to build that defensive measure by yet more overly complex booking is a trap, and a big one,

 

[Watershed]

There is no 'new trap'. The passenger is free to book their journey with additional time for connections, something offered on the best booking sites. The principle for advance fares has always been that the booked itinerary must be followed.

Not necessarily. Perhaps partly in recognition of the fact it wasn't feasible to print the whole itinerary when Advance tickets were all CCST based, the basic principle remains that you can take any "appropriate connecting service" for the unreserved portion of an Advance ticket.

The difference is that the proliferation of counted place sear reservations on local services means it's now impossible to have an unreserved portion for most journeys.

The GTR easement for Advance tickets, allowing passengers to travel on any GTR service for multi-TOC Advances, is something that should be publicised more widely and replicated across the industry. Northern have no real interest in forcing people to travel on an exact Penistone to Sheffield service when travelling to London; the vast majority of their trains would be available for whichever Advance tier is available on the EMR service.

The only development is that the full itinerary is now fully specified on the face of the ticket.

As above, that's not quite true.

 

[JonathanH]

The one thing I do note in this case, which is perhaps unfortunate, is that the original poster is looking to end up with a 68 minute connection at Sheffield, when there is a train to London which leaves during half way through those 68 minutes. The ability to easily specify a longer wait for connections on more booking engines, and not just the one promoted by this forum, would be a very welcome step.

 

[Haywain]

The only development is that the full itinerary is now fully specified on the face of the ticket.

I would say the new development is that more trains are reservable than in the past.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jul 2025 ==

The ability to easily specify a longer wait for connections on more booking engines, and not just the one promoted by this forum, would be a very welcome step.

I'm willing to bet that that would lead to complaints about long journey times and not being allowed to take earlier trains!

 

[Nicholas43]

I would say the new development is that more trains are reservable than in the past.

Not actually reservable, in the sense that you have a seat number. Pointlessly and confusingly specifiable.

 

[modernrail]

Not actually reservable, in the sense that you have a seat number. Pointlessly and confusingly specifiable.

Exactly, it is a really ridiculous thing.

 

[yorkie]

Hello! I have bought my parents an Advance ticket from Brockholes (Penistone Line) to London St. Pancras.

Years ago, when I was a guard, an Advance ticket marked with an operator "+Connections" was always valid on any connecting Northern service. The only train that was mandatory was the high speed/long distance one to London.

In this case, although the ticket says "Valid on specified trains & connections only", the reservation coupon does list the 11:24 train from Brockholes to Sheffield then the 12:37 from Sheffield to London.

Can they still use the one before (10:24) from Brockholes as was the case years ago, or would they be at risk of getting charged extra please?

Thanks very much in advance!

In future, if you want to allow more time for the connection, go into advanced options and specify:

• Via Sheffield
• Change at
• Additional interchange time: 60 mins

Don't forget to use the seat selector, if you have particular seats in mind




== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jul 2025 ==

Exactly, it is a really ridiculous thing.

Agreed, but the ridiculousness of this is best discussed in a separate thread.

The one thing I do note in this case, which is perhaps unfortunate, is that the original poster is looking to end up with a 68 minute connection at Sheffield, when there is a train to London which leaves during half way through those 68 minutes. The ability to easily specify a longer wait for connections on more booking engines, and not just the one promoted by this forum, would be a very welcome step.

Train companies aren't interested in providing this functionality.

So if anyone wants this functionality, they simply need to be told where it is available (to be fair, it's not just ours; any Trainsplit-based site will work, however our site does have some additional functionality that no other Trainsplit-based site has, but that's not relevant to this particular thread).

 

[Snow1964]

The only development is that the full itinerary is now fully specified on the face of the ticket.

Actually if you are picking up credit card size tickets, the journey is often scattered over multiple tickets.

I did a single trip recently and got 5 tickets, one was a ticket (including cross London on Elizabeth line), one reservation for main train, 2 were connections tickets one for before main train and one after neither specified the train, the other was a receipt. If the connections only have counted places rather than assigned seats it seems not to print the train time either.

The full itinerary was only on the booking email, so no ticket checker would ever know if I was on correct connection.

Technically you should travel on the correct train, but if your tickets are old style with magnetic stripes then no one ever asks for the supporting pages which show the full itinerary, they just check date and route.

 

[Haywain]

2 were connections tickets one for before main train and one after neither specified the train

How does that (not specifying the train) work?

 

[Snow1964]

How does that (not specifying the train) work?

On one of the credit size pages it simply printed connection from x to y, no allocated seats, sit anywhere on the train.
Only valid with ticket number Z (which was ticket on first of the credit sized tickets)

Might be an oddity as my journey involved 5 trains (the last one being Thope le Soken to Frinton), but the credit card vouchers didn't show any of the times of the trains without allocated seats.

I was on correct train except for Elizabeth line where I was on 2 trains before, but wouldn't have known without the booking email showing details of full itinerary

 

[AdamWW]

There is no 'new trap'. The passenger is free to book their journey with additional time for connections, something offered on the best booking sites.

So it's a passenger's fault if they don't know that if they went to a different booking site and looked in the advanced options they could add connection time?

 

[Haywain]

On one of the credit size pages it simply printed connection from x to y, no allocated seats,

That sounds like it was specifying the train, but not a seat.