comparison of differing door opening procedures/abilities for different train types

[aar0]

I caught a 197 on Sunday and on alighting held the door open button after we had stopped but before the guard had released the doors. On 800s, 150s and 153s this means the door springs open as soon as they’re released. I had thought a 197 was the same, however the door beeped and didn’t open, and the guard told me not to do it again as it jammed the mechanism. Has this changed or have I just misremembered?

 

[Torfaen]

"Jammed the mechanism" doesn't sound right.
Definitely the door doesn't open if you push the button before it lights up green. It lights red instead, and won't open till you release and wait for it to go green.
If you push and hold for several seconds when the door is open, it stays open - I wonder whether push and hold while the door is released has some special function too?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

"Jammed the mechanism" doesn't sound right.
Definitely the door doesn't open if you push the button before it lights up green. It lights red instead, and won't open till you release and wait for it to go green.
If you push and hold for several seconds when the door is open, it stays open - I wonder whether push and hold while the door is released has some special function too?

I'm pretty sure there was something posted on the forum a few months ago saying that on some of the newer trains holding the door button down for a certain length of time when the doors aren't cut in will isolate that door. I can't remember which thread, or which type of train was being discussed.

Is that the case with the 197s?

 

[Gordonman]

I caught a 197 on Sunday and on alighting held the door open button after we had stopped but before the guard had released the doors. On 800s, 150s and 153s this means the door springs open as soon as they’re released. I had thought a 197 was the same, however the door beeped and didn’t open, and the guard told me not to do it again as it jammed the mechanism. Has this changed or have I just misremembered?

Maybe just have a bit of patience next time.What is the logic in pressing the door release button prior to the red light being extinguished when the guard releases the doors?

 

[SWML9102]

Maybe just have a bit of patience next time.What is the logic in pressing the door release button prior to the red light being extinguished when the guard releases the doors?

So you don't have to spend 30-40 secs staring at it while the guard does platform checks.

 

[Torfaen]

Maybe just have a bit of patience next time.What is the logic in pressing the door release button prior to the red light being extinguished when the guard releases the doors?

At stations where there isn't a choice of platforms, the "door out of use" light does not come on. The door open button only lights up red if you press it too soon.
It's not about having patience - it's about knowing / remembering what type of train it is, and therefore whether holding the button down and waiting for release works or not. On trains where it works, I prefer to keep the button pressed rather than watch it until it lights up.

 

[tfw756rider]

The 197s don't have 'open on hold'. However, the buttons are very quick to respond and open the doors if you press them a split-second after release/beeps/green light

 

[Tester]

At stations where there isn't a choice of platforms, the "door out of use" light does not come on. The door open button only lights up red if you press it too soon.
It's not about having patience - it's about knowing / remembering what type of train it is, and therefore whether holding the button down and waiting for release works or not. On trains where it works, I prefer to keep the button pressed rather than watch it until it lights up.

You would love it in Switzerland!

Generally a press on a door button whenever you like will light the button green, and then open the right doors at the right time without further ado.

It is after all just a call.

 

[BurtonM]

Manchester Metrolink is even better - you can 'prime' the doors by pressing the button at any time, the button flashes green, and then the door opens next time the driver releases them.

 

[OrangeJuice]

You would love it in Switzerland!

Generally a press on a door button whenever you like will light the button green, and then open the right doors at the right time without further ado.

It is after all just a call.

This. Switzerland is great, no testing reaction times to the light up green to open doors when released.

Press any time and they light up green so will open when released instead. Also can be used as requesting to stop for request stops.

A shame the flirts didn't have this in Anglia as people stared at me when I tried to prime the doors beforehand, but wasn't possible

 

[Peter Sarf]

Maybe just have a bit of patience next time.What is the logic in pressing the door release button prior to the red light being extinguished when the guard releases the doors?

Trouble is most people (passengers) will press the button shortly after the train comes to a stand. They have little knowledge of the workings of door control and especially any peculiarities of different train types.

It seems counter productive to disable a door if someone presses the open button prematurely. Furthermore I feel disabling the door in such circumstances serves no useful purpose as far as I can see anyway. That is if such a thing really does happen ?.

In some trains (trams ?) pressing the door open button early is a feature that means the door opens as soon as the train (tram) operator releases the doors. I have read of this feature in the past on here. A useful feature if you have to gather bags, kids, prams etc etc and have no free hand to press the button with.

 

[Goldfish62]

In some trains (trams ?) pressing the door open button early is a feature that means the door opens as soon as the train (tram) operator releases the doors. I have read of this feature in the past on here. A useful feature if you have to gather bags, kids, prams etc etc and have no free hand to press the button with.

Trams and city buses across Europe commonly have this feature.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This. Switzerland is great, no testing reaction times to the light up green to open doors when released.

Press any time and they light up green so will open when released instead. Also can be used as requesting to stop for request stops.

A shame the flirts didn't have this in Anglia as people stared at me when I tried to prime the doors beforehand, but wasn't possible

Merseyrail had this feature turned on initially on the 777s but turned it off after a number of wrong side releases meant doors opening on the wrong side, which is particularly hazardous on a third rail railway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 14:10 ==

I caught a 197 on Sunday and on alighting held the door open button after we had stopped but before the guard had released the doors. On 800s, 150s and 153s this means the door springs open as soon as they’re released. I had thought a 197 was the same, however the door beeped and didn’t open, and the guard told me not to do it again as it jammed the mechanism. Has this changed or have I just misremembered?

It wouldn't do anything to the mechanism. It's just that some buttons are edge activated (the act of pressing the button in sends the signal to the electronics to open it) and some are state activated (the button being pressed in will cause a constant signal to be sent to the electronics to open it). Which it is depends on the design of the button and the code in the software interpreting it.

 

[Goldfish62]

Merseyrail had this feature turned on initially on the 777s but turned it off after a number of wrong side releases meant doors opening on the wrong side, which is particularly hazardous on a third rail railway.

I thought being such modern trains they'd have CSDE (Correct Side Door Enable) fitted, something that London Underground has had for over three decades!

 

[D365]

It wouldn't do anything to the mechanism. It's just that some buttons are edge activated (the act of pressing the button in sends the signal to the electronics to open it) and some are state activated (the button being pressed in will cause a constant signal to be sent to the electronics to open it). Which it is depends on the design of the button and the code in the software interpreting it.

Door open / door close pushbuttons are momentary in nature. It's entirely down to the door software configuration (which itself should be based on extensive risk assessment reviews) to determine whether or not a door can be 'pre-armed'. Incidents such as on Merseyrail demonstrate that pre-arming can only be deemed acceptable if there are other safety mechanisms in place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought being such modern trains they'd have CSDE (Correct Side Door Enable) fitted, something that London Underground has had for over three decades!

They don't, or if they do it's not in use. It's yet another way in which they are absolute and utter junk.

They can't even get ASDO working properly at one station on the entire network that needs it (Cressington).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 14:30 ==

Door open / door close pushbuttons are momentary in nature. It's entirely down to the door software configuration (which itself should be based on extensive risk assessment reviews) to determine whether or not a door can be 'pre-armed'. Incidents such as on Merseyrail demonstrate that pre-arming can only be deemed acceptable if there are other safety mechanisms in place.

Pre-arming is different from whether a button is edge or state activated. This as I said refers to when the button sends a signal and when the electronics interprets that that signal was sent. It also applies to older, non-software units - on 15x it's state activated, on 323s it's edge activated.

 

[D365]

Pre-arming is different from whether a button is edge or state activated. This as I said refers to when the button sends a signal and when the electronics interprets that that signal was sent. It also applies to older, non-software units - on 15x it's state activated, on 323s it's edge activated.

At an electromechanical level, the pushbuttons are momentary (normally open contact). Beyond that, it's entirely down to the software configuration of the door control module.

 

[aar0]

To round this out now it’s its own thread, my excited toddler was holding the button - which at all times (as far as I know) lights up when pressed. Though I would have done too to maximise the time with the door open to get him and our luggage off safely.