Collection ticket/ E-ticket mistake prosecution

[sunshin3]

Hi all,

I received a letter with from Thameslink with a notice of intent to prosecute, hopefully you can tell me if I stand a chance of getting it dropped or if I will have to pay a fine or worse.

Background, I'm guessing the reason I got this instead of a fine is because a few years ago I got a fine for fare evasion, I had recently moved from an area that you could buy train tickets on the train to Thameslink where you can't. I wasn't aware that not all trains operated like this, but I paid my fine and learnt my expensive lesson.

This incident happened in February, I had bought a ticket through trainpal like I do as I am a frequent train commuter, as I do it so often I do it very quickly and generally don't double-check my ticket before leaving. That day for some unknown reason the only option was to collect, and I hadn't noticed, the first time I was aware was when the train inspector asked for my ticket, and it wasn't there, I showed him my screen, and he actually helped me realise it was a collection ticket.

I offered to cancel it and purchase one that was an eticket but of course apparently you can't do that these days. So I didn't fare evade I had purchased a ticket, it was an innocent mistake, I had time at the station so if I'd realised of course I would have collected the ticket.

This has caused a lot of stress and did at the time as I was treated very harshly by the inspector too, this seems a very poor way to treat ongoing customers when they make a mistake like we all do all the time. I have replied to the letter stating what happened, but I'm hoping to get some answers about what my likely outcome is here?

Thank you!

 

[AlterEgo]

It's hard to say what will happen because we don't know what you said. Did you acknowledge in your response that you committed an offence and apologised for doing so, and did you ask for the matter to be disposed of outside of court?

 

[sunshin3]

In my response I said that it was an innocent mistake, that I have been a regular paying customer and that the situation has caused a great deal of distress.

I didn't apologise as I didn't realise I needed to, I said that I hoped it would be dismissed, or I would need to seek legal advice, and speak to relevant bodies about the matter. I didn't say this part to them but in my eyes I shouldn't be prosecuted for making a mistake, speeding and actual crimes are dealt with a lot less severely and this is not how companies should treat paying customers.

No other circumstance would a company treat a customer who accidentally made a mistake like a criminal, they would just help you correct your mistake, even mistakes from the tax man are dealt with better!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

In my response I said that it was an innocent mistake, that I have been a regular paying customer and that the situation has caused a great deal of distress. I didn't apologise as I didn't realise I needed to, I said that I hoped it would be dismissed or I would need to seek legal advise and speak to relevent bodies about the matter. I didn't say this part to them but in my eyes I shouldn't be prosecuted for making a mistake, speeding and actual crimes are dealt with a lot less severely and this is not how companies should treat paying customers. No other circumstance would a company treat a customer who accidently made a mistake like a criminal, they would just help you correct your mistake, even mistakes from the tax man are dealt with better!

You may need to prepare yourself for a negative response from the railway.

In our experience, GTR (who operate Thameslink) are happy to agree out of court settlements where the passenger apologises, confirms that they will not fail to have a valid ticket in future, and agrees to pay the amount of the ticket they should have had plus the costs of GTR's investigation. But it's not clear to us quite how much of what we know is accepted is absolutely required. So it might be that GTR find your response acceptable, and will offer you the chance to settle the matter out of court - or it might be that they read it as meaning that only going to court will meet their aim of making sure that you don't get it wrong again.

But even if the next correspondence from them makes it clear that the matter is heading to court, all may not be lost. We have seen some success at that point of a particularly grovelling apology getting GTR to withdraw the threat of court in exchange for the payment of an out of court settlement.

So in practice, please keep a close eye out for a further letter from GTR. It is of course your choice how you then take things forward, but we may well be able to give you helpful suggestions if you share it with us before you respond to it.

 

[WesternLancer]

In my response I said that it was an innocent mistake, that I have been a regular paying customer and that the situation has caused a great deal of distress. I didn't apologise as I didn't realise I needed to, I said that I hoped it would be dismissed or I would need to seek legal advise and speak to relevent bodies about the matter. I didn't say this part to them but in my eyes I shouldn't be prosecuted for making a mistake, speeding and actual crimes are dealt with a lot less severely and this is not how companies should treat paying customers. No other circumstance would a company treat a customer who accidently made a mistake like a criminal, they would just help you correct your mistake, even mistakes from the tax man are dealt with better!

Your wider points are probably ones best raised with your MP, because the government (who essentially control what the railway companies do via the Dept for Transport) are ultimately responsible for the line they take on fares enforcement and then how that plays out for people who consider themselves honest paying customers - but I do sympathise with you on that.

Meanwhile, focussing on your own situation as it is now, if you kept a copy of what you sent them, and want to post a version of that here but with your personal details blanked out (name, address ref number etc removed) - we can probably give you a reasonably well informed idea of whether your reply will elicit the least worst outcome or whether you might need to follow it up. It may be that you if your reply was not what would have been best you can write again with advice from here, or if they reply and say they are going to escalate enforcement against you (eg via court) - we can then advise what best to do to avoid that.

More generally (and their are exceptions)
- the government want the train operators to move away from selling tickets on board trains - which means they want people to buy before they board every time - either from a ticket office or a ticket machine (they do not require people to buy on their phones ahead of travel tho obviously they are very happy for people to do so)

- It's not permitted to buy a ticket after you board a train on your phone, and staff ticket scanners are set up to alert the staff on checking if this has happened using data in the QR code on the e-ticket (the scanner knows the time of the train and the time the ticket was bought and alerts the staff AIUI)

- Thameslink trains are driver only staffed - so there is no one on board to sell you a ticket ever (I appreciate you did not know that at the time) - the people who do ticket checks board randomly for the sole purpose of fares enforcement (you can travel pretty often on those trains and rarely encounter anyone checking tickets in my personal experience) - which is one of the reasons they don't tend to be very interested in the sort of explanation you will have given about not knowing you could not buy on board, because unfortunately there are lots of deliberate fare evaders on those trains and it won't be easy for staff to know who is or is not trying it on.

 

[sunshin3]

Your wider points are probably ones best raised with your MP, because the government (who essentially control what the railway companies do via the Dept for Transport) are ultimately responsible for the line they take on fares enforcement and then how that plays out for people who consider themselves honest paying customers - but I do sympathise with you on that.

Meanwhile, focussing on your own situation as it is now, if you kept a copy of what you sent them, and want to post a version of that here but with your personal details blanked out (name, address ref number etc removed) - we can probably give you a reasonably well informed idea of whether your reply will elicit the least worst outcome or whether you might need to follow it up. It may be that you if your reply was not what would have been best you can write again with advice from here, or if they reply and say they are going to escalate enforcement against you (eg via court) - we can then advise what best to do to avoid that.

More generally (and their are exceptions)
- the government want the train operators to move away from selling tickets on board trains - which means they want people to buy before they board every time - either from a ticket office or a ticket machine (they do not require people to buy on their phones ahead of travel tho obviously they are very happy for people to do so)

- It's not permitted to buy a ticket after you board a train on your phone, and staff ticket scanners are set up to alert the staff on checking if this has happened using data in the QR code on the e-ticket (the scanner knows the time of the train and the time the ticket was bought and alerts the staff AIUI)

- Thameslink trains are driver only staffed - so there is no one on board to sell you a ticket ever (I appreciate you did not know that at the time) - the people who do ticket checks board randomly for the sole purpose of fares enforcement (you can travel pretty often on those trains and rarely encounter anyone checking tickets in my personal experience) - which is one of the reasons they don't tend to be very interested in the sort of explanation you will have given about not knowing you could not buy on board, because unfortunately there are lots of deliberate fare evaders on those trains and it won't be easy for staff to know who is or is not trying it on.

Absolutely, sorry I was just posting about the previous incident as context as to why the letter is for prosecution rather than a just a fine.I totally understand about tickets needing to be purchased before boarding. It feels absurd to have to grovel for something like this but if that is what is needed to sort it out I'm absolutely fine doing so. Thank you everyone for your advice, I will look into it I can send another message and look at contacting my MP for help too. Thank you!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Apr 2026 ==

You may need to prepare yourself for a negative response from the railway.

In our experience, GTR (who operate Thameslink) are happy to agree out of court settlements where the passenger apologises, confirms that they will not fail to have a valid ticket in future, and agrees to pay the amount of the ticket they should have had plus the costs of GTR's investigation. But it's not clear to us quite how much of what we know is accepted is absolutely required. So it might be that GTR find your response acceptable, and will offer you the chance to settle the matter out of court - or it might be that they read it as meaning that only going to court will meet their aim of making sure that you don't get it wrong again.

But even if the next correspondence from them makes it clear that the matter is heading to court, all may not be lost. We have seen some success at that point of a particularly grovelling apology getting GTR to withdraw the threat of court in exchange for the payment of an out of court settlement.

So in practice, please keep a close eye out for a further letter from GTR. It is of course your choice how you then take things forward, but we may well be able to give you helpful suggestions if you share it with us before you respond to it.

Also just to add, I had paid for the ticket so they already had the money for the ticket. They were never out of pocket, I paid for the correct ticket correct price I just failed to realise that it needed to be collected. They will now be out of pocket for investigating it but they weren't out of pocket to begin with!

 

[WesternLancer]

Absolutely, sorry I was just posting about the previous incident as context as to why the letter is for prosecution rather than a just a fine.I totally understand about tickets needing to be purchased before boarding. It feels absurd to have to grovel for something like this but if that is what is needed to sort it out I'm absolutely fine doing so. Thank you everyone for your advice, I will look into it I can send another message and look at contacting my MP for help too. Thank you!

Thanks - I think I should have been clearer in my comment - I would not recommend involving your MP at this stage as the risk is that they (or some busy member of MPs staff) would not appreciate you were raising a matter of general policy and might think you wanted then to intervene on your behalf as a piece of what MPs typically call 'casework' - and although that might be something to do it might backfire (but could maybe be soemthignt o consider doing depending on how they respond to your reply)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Apr 2026 ==


Also just to add, I had paid for the ticket so they already had the money for the ticket. They were never out of pocket, I paid for the correct ticket correct price I just failed to realise that it needed to be collected. They will now be out of pocket for investigating it but they weren't out of pocket to begin with!

Politley and firmly made that is a legitimate point that you could make to them / could have made to them which might result in them taking no further action about the matter (which is a possible outcome that we occasionally see on here)
which is kind of why I suggested you share here what exactly you have said to them to help us give you a idea of what it might result in (tho of course no problem if you don't; want to do that - either way you will get help from here as things progress, if you need it).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Also just to add, I had paid for the ticket so they already had the money for the ticket. They were never out of pocket, I paid for the correct ticket correct price I just failed to realise that it needed to be collected. They will now be out of pocket for investigating it but they weren't out of pocket to begin with!

In our experience, the railway tend to be fairly hidebound on points like this. In the first instance, they're likely to quote railway byelaw 18 to you:

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas
(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter
any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a
valid ticket entitling him to travel.
(2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity
when asked to do so by an authorised person.
(3) No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 18(1) or 18(2) if:
(i) there were no facilities in working order for the issue or
validation of any ticket at the time when, and the station where,
he began his journey; or
(ii) there was a notice at the station where he began his journey
permitting journeys to be started without a valid ticket; or
(iii) an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a
valid ticket.

(source: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a79c14b40f0b66d161ade8c/railway-byelaws.pdf)

So by the rules (and not just rules, but the law) because you couldn't produce a ticket when asked, you are in the wrong. The railway can take you to court, and on the admitted fact that you were unable to present a ticket they will win (note that byelaw 18(2) doesn't say anything about intending to travel without a ticket - the mere failure to hand over your ticket is enough to make you guilty, no matter why it happened)

But if you manage to take the discussion further than 'them's the rules: we must enforce them' the railway are likely to point out that if they were to accept that a paper ticket had been bought but wasn't shown, then they have no way of knowing that you didn't buy and collect the paper ticket - and pass it on to someone else who would be travelling on the paper ticket while you were travelling on the proof of having bought the paper ticket. And I have to say that I have sympathy with the railway on this: it may damage one's trust in human nature, but people are prepared to go to considerable lengths to avoid paying the proper train fare.

So in my view, the railway are entitled to pursue the fare: you haven't followed the rules, and they have no way of knowing that someone else hasn't been travelling on the ticket that you bought.

I know that this isn't the outcome that you'll be hoping for. But realistically, heading off the risk of going to court and paying a settlement instead is likely to be the best that you will be able to get.

 

[AlterEgo]

So in my view, the railway are entitled to pursue the fare: you haven't followed the rules, and they have no way of knowing that someone else hasn't been travelling on the ticket that you bought.

Yes they do. They can check if the ticket has been collected or not! If it has remained uncollected, the OP can point that out, and ask for leniency here and perhaps not have to pay a settlement. It's worth a shot.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Yes they do. They can check if the ticket has been collected or not! If it has remained uncollected, the OP can point that out, and ask for leniency here and perhaps not have to pay a settlement. It's worth a shot.

Although that doesn't make the byelaw offence go away.

 

[AlterEgo]

Although that doesn't make the byelaw offence go away.

It doesn't but it is grounds to show no loss occurred and for the action to be cancelled. These are things you would expect train companies to do as part of their reeeeeally expensive investigation process (2 minutes work to see if a ticket was collected).

 

[swt_passenger]

Hi all,

I received a letter with from Thameslink with a notice of intent to prosecute, hopefully you can tell me if I stand a chance of getting it dropped or if I will have to pay a fine or worse.

Background, I'm guessing the reason I got this instead of a fine is because a few years ago I got a fine for fare evasion, I had recently moved from an area that you could buy train tickets on the train to Thameslink where you can't. I wasn't aware that not all trains operated like this, but I paid my fine and learnt my expensive lesson.

Did you actually go to court and receive a ‘fine’, or do you mean you were given a penalty fare while on the train or at a station? It’s rare for a first occurrence of ticketless travel on Thameslink to get to court.

 

[sunshin3]

Did you actually go to court and receive a ‘fine’, or do you mean you were given a penalty fare while on the train or at a station? It’s rare for a first occurrence of ticketless travel on Thameslink to get to court.

The first situation I mentioned was a penalty fare of £70 given at the time by the member of staff and paid later online

 

[WesternLancer]

The first situation I mentioned was a penalty fare of £70 given at the time by the member of staff and paid later online

That shouldn’t really influence this. Tho it might have meant the front line staff member, if the could see it, would not have been keen on just issuing another one as they might think you’d’not learned a lesson’ from the previous occasion.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

That shouldn’t really influence this. Tho it might have meant the front line staff member, if the could see it, would not have been keen on just issuing another one as they might think you’d’not learned a lesson’ from the previous occasion.

My impression from what we see here is that GTR's standard process is to take details, issue a letter of intended prosecution and (subject to what response they get) then settle out of court, rather than issuing penalty fares.

If I am right, then there's nothing unusual about what the OP has received.

 

[LA50041]

Hi all,

I received a letter with from Thameslink with a notice of intent to prosecute, hopefully you can tell me if I stand a chance of getting it dropped or if I will have to pay a fine or worse.

Background, I'm guessing the reason I got this instead of a fine is because a few years ago I got a fine for fare evasion, I had recently moved from an area that you could buy train tickets on the train to Thameslink where you can't. I wasn't aware that not all trains operated like this, but I paid my fine and learnt my expensive lesson.

This incident happened in February, I had bought a ticket through trainpal like I do as I am a frequent train commuter, as I do it so often I do it very quickly and generally don't double-check my ticket before leaving. That day for some unknown reason the only option was to collect, and I hadn't noticed, the first time I was aware was when the train inspector asked for my ticket, and it wasn't there, I showed him my screen, and he actually helped me realise it was a collection ticket.

I offered to cancel it and purchase one that was an eticket but of course apparently you can't do that these days. So I didn't fare evade I had purchased a ticket, it was an innocent mistake, I had time at the station so if I'd realised of course I would have collected the ticket.

This has caused a lot of stress and did at the time as I was treated very harshly by the inspector too, this seems a very poor way to treat ongoing customers when they make a mistake like we all do all the time. I have replied to the letter stating what happened, but I'm hoping to get some answers about what my likely outcome is here?

Thank you!

what was the origin and destination of the ticket? if cross London this will not be an e-tickt as TfL will not accept these

 

[Swedenorer]

As to the attitude of on board staff one other thing to bear in mind is that some retailers, Southern for example, at the time offered a facility for an automatic refund on uncollected tickets making the Collection Reference worthless as proof of holding a ticket and/or no loss to the railway.

What happened re your uncollected tickets????

 

[sunshin3]

As to the attitude of on board staff one other thing to bear in mind is that some retailers, Southern for example, at the time offered a facility for an automatic refund on uncollected tickets making the Collection Reference worthless as proof of holding a ticket and/or no loss to the railway.

What happened re your uncollected tickets????

The retailer was Thameslink and as far as I'm aware no automatic refund happens with them, I also bought through trainpal so not direct, I'd imagine it wouldn't get refunded through a third party anyway! I had to get out of barriers at my destination station so I got my original ticket refunded and bought a ticket for my journey again ensuring I had an eticket so I could leave the other side.

 

[saismee]

I also bought through trainpal

The retailed is Trainpal, not Thameslink.