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Class 150 after London Midland

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swt_passenger

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PTE's have to address crowded trains and an overcrowded peak time train is officially where the number of passengers on the train exceeds a number equal to 1.35 times the number of seats on the train even if 2+2 makes more standing room opposed to 3+2 seating.

Also consideration should be given to the amount of time passengers have to stand for. In the case of Northern Rail any of their diesel trains can be used on a journey of up to 3 hours so removing 20 seats and having 12 passengers standing for 1.5 hours on some services would not be a good move.

The DfT's overcrowding rules are national standards, there have been problems in the past where some PTEs were out of step, WMPTE were using 110% at one stage and demanding more capacity, whereas the DfT reckoned on 130%. So at the last franchise change London Midland's 'WMPTE area' overcrowding targets were brought into line with the national figures. If they hadn't there'd have been the stupid situation where the Euston - New St services had different figures at either end of the route? [This caused a load of media outrage at the time, people may recall.]

However for trains with conventional commuter layouts the standing allowance is actually area based; the allowance is 0.45 sq m per standee, not a percentage. I believe the percentages usually discussed are calculated for classes of trains in the franchise specs, based on the 0.45 sq m.

This from Hansard 21 July 2008 : Column 888W

Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport pursuant to the answers of 19 June 2008, Official Report, column 1067W, on railways: overcrowding, when her Department's formula to determine train capacity, derived from dividing the interior size of a passenger vehicle by 0.45 square metres, was first used; and whether the divisor in the formula has ever varied from 0.45 square metres. [214781]

Mr. Tom Harris [holding answer 1 July 2008]: The standard of 0.45 square metres for determining train capacity was first used by the Office for Passenger Rail Franchising in 2000, and continues to apply today.

There are two specific variations: Class 376 trains, operating on Southeastern services; and for services operated by Stagecoach South West Trains to and from London Waterloo.

New (Class 376) purpose-built vehicles ordered for Southeastern are configured to serve short-distance Metro passenger flows, and the stock has been specifically configured with low density seating and appropriate grab rails for standing passengers, to ensure that passengers can stand in relative comfort for short-distance journeys; the same is true for Class 455 units operated by Stagecoach South West Trains, on services that stop within 20 minutes of leaving London Waterloo. In these cases the standard is varied to 0.35 and 0.25 square metres respectively.

This last bit is why I suggest that if specific layouts are decided upon, the capacity would go shooting up. The SWT 455 unit capacity (as defined in SWT's franchise spec) is 236 seated and 380 standing. Then again suppose (and this is highly theoretical) a franchise bidder in the NW decided to order new 172s for a pure commuter route, but with the internal layout of a LO 378. It would be unrealistic to carry on using a crowding figure of 130% - these things carry about 150 standees for every 40 seated, more like a tram than a train; and they do cross London services of around an hour end to end.

However there is still a difference for 'long distance services' the capacity is simply based on the number of seats.
 
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WL113

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The 150s are very fine units that have served the West Midlands very well. They performed superbly on the New St-Rugeley services. The 170s always struggled to keep time on that line when they occasionally appeared. When Central became LM and the 150s were replaced by 170+153 combinations the reliability of the service went downhill.
 

fgwrich

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If Fgw are to take 150/1s I hope they will get a refirb before they get here. We already have 2 150/1 in the area. As for making the 158s longer, from what I saw today someone in the traction planning dept needs to look at the events calender for the Bristol & Cardiff area & think about what trains to double the size of. More to the point why can't they run the ECS working of 57's & stock from Taunton to Cardiff as a service train. I am dam sure it would be full.

First Great Western are to refurbish the ex LM & LO 150's, to the standard of the ex Wessex 150/2s...Ie the floors will be renewed and replaced, interior panels repaired & repainted...new 2+2 seating - again, same as the ex Wessex units interior...

FGW has also recently stated that they plan to use the ex LO 150/1s and hopefully ex LM 150/2s on an increased Devon Metro service( Barnstaple to Exmouth / Paignton), displacing the pacers once again...

Hope that clears some things up...
 

devon_metro

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FGW has also recently stated that they plan to use the ex LO 150/1s and hopefully ex LM 150/2s on an increased Devon Metro service( Barnstaple to Exmouth / Paignton), displacing the pacers once again...

There are aspirations for a half hourly Paignton - Exeter service from 2011. Also, until then I believe they plan to run all sets as 4 car.
 

387star

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I hope the livery is ameded so that the blue used is more like FCC class 321s. Looks much better and is, after all, the latest amendment to the new image.
 

Multiple Unit

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2 Jan 2010
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With the current Goverment looking at cutting back the order of cariages id say nothing is final as to where the 150 units go to but it is belived that northern Will get the majority of them and relive four 156 units to EMT as well as displacing 142 units which may go to FGW for which there is a thought that EMT may get 2 extra 153s on loan whilst the refreshment is done on there fleet.
 

tbtc

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it is belived that northern Will get the majority of them and relive four 156 units to EMT as well as displacing 142 units which may go to FGW

I thought the FGW 142s were coming to Northern (not Northern 142s going south)?

I'd rather have 150s up here than Pacers, of course
 

northwichcat

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Pretty sur Northern want rid of 142 units.!

Northern have said that they are unhappy at having the 7x142s currently with FGW to replace the 180s and want cascaded Sprinters instead but the fact is Northern aren't getting Sprinters instead and they are planning Dec 10 timetables for having 7 extra 142s and 3 less 180s.
 

tbtc

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Northern have said that they are unhappy at having the 7x142s currently with FGW to replace the 180s and want cascaded Sprinters instead

Call me biased, but I agree with Northern; we seem to have the rubbish end of the deal (especially when you count the lost 156s to EMT and the loaned 158s which ScotRail gets to "keep").

I'd much rather have Sprinters, but its not going to happen
 
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