Class 150/2 Power / Brake Notch Behaviour

[Ghawk2005]

Class 150/2 Power / Brake Notch Behaviour

This is a question for any drivers or guards out there that may know this. I’m perplexed.

I know power shouldn’t be able to he applied in Brake Notch 2, but can you power up to full power in Brake Step 1 or is it just limited to throttle notch 2 ? Any info would be greatly appreciated.


for those who are curious - I am questioning Rivet’s handy work with their 150

thanks
Gary

 

[Stigy]

Class 150/2 Power / Brake Notch Behaviour

This is a question for any drivers or guards out there that may know this. I’m perplexed.

I know power shouldn’t be able to he applied in Brake Notch 2, but can you power up to full power in Brake Step 1 or is it just limited to throttle notch 2 ? Any info would be greatly appreciated.


for those who are curious - I am questioning Rivet’s handy work with their 150

thanks
Gary

You can take more than two power notches whilst the brake is in step one generally.

 

[Ghawk2005]

You can take more than two power notches whilst the brake is in step one generally.

Thank you - thought as much. Rivet is a nightmare and god knows how it got through Quality Control at all.

 

[hexagon789]

Class 150/2 Power / Brake Notch Behaviour

This is a question for any drivers or guards out there that may know this. I’m perplexed.

I know power shouldn’t be able to he applied in Brake Notch 2, but can you power up to full power in Brake Step 1 or is it just limited to throttle notch 2 ? Any info would be greatly appreciated.


for those who are curious - I am questioning Rivet’s handy work with their 150

thanks
Gary

You can go right up to full power; that was the original driving technique - hold brake in 1, power to max, release brake and get maximum acceleration. Obviously not very fuel efficient and certainly by 1990 ScotRail (not sure about other regions) had amended their driving instruction to a 0-2-4-7 approach.

 

[quattromatt]

3- release- 5-7 is how I drive them.

 

[hexagon789]

3- release- 5-7 is how I drive them.

Which is pretty standard these days

 

[quattromatt]

Which is pretty standard these days

I’ve been told off for not notching one at a time before.

 

[hexagon789]

I’ve been told off for not notching one at a time before.

Well I was told by a ScotRail driver that when they first got their 170s the official company manual stated they were to be opened notch-by-notch and the next notch not taken until power had settled in the current one.

However, 170s have a fair delay in revving up to each new power setting and particularly when moving from OFF into a power setting and essentially that takes far to long (170s are sluggish enough as it is!). So I understand they just went with the standard 0-3-5-7 and have kept that ever since.

Certainly trips on the E&G when 170s were the staple traction always seemed to adhere to a low-medium-high, that is 3 distinct increases, of power setting in pulling away.

Would a 170 even move on anything other than dead level track or a downgrade in Notch 1 anyway?

 

[O L Leigh]

Well I was told by a ScotRail driver that when they first got their 170s the official company manual stated they were to be opened notch-by-notch and the next notch not taken until power had settled in the current one.

However, 170s have a fair delay in revving up to each new power setting and particularly when moving from OFF into a power setting and essentially that takes far to long (170s are sluggish enough as it is!). So I understand they just went with the standard 0-3-5-7 and have kept that ever since.

Certainly trips on the E&G when 170s were the staple traction always seemed to adhere to a low-medium-high, that is 3 distinct increases, of power setting in pulling away.

Would a 170 even move on anything other than dead level track or a downgrade in Notch 1 anyway?

You don’t need to 3-5-7 on a Cl170 because you won’t get more than notch 5 power below 12mph anyway. You can just go from 3 direct to 7.

Also, they are only particularly slow to react when taking power from off as, like all hydraulics, you have to wait for the transmission to refill before the revs will rise. If you’ve already got a power notch you can increase power more rapidly.

But back to the point about Cl150s; the ability to take power against the brake was to permit hill starts. Modern units with a combined power/brake controller have a hill start button to replicate this feature.

 

[D365]

But back to the point about Cl150s; the ability to take power against the brake was to permit hill starts. Modern units with a combined power/brake controller have a hill start button to replicate this feature.

That's exactly the comment I was going to make.

Who is/are "Rivet"?

 

[aw1972]

That's exactly the comment I was going to make.

Who is/are "Rivet"?

Rivet are Rivet Games who have just released the Class 150/2 as part of their West Cornwall add-on for the Train Sim World 2 videogame

 

[43096]

I’ve been told off for not notching one at a time before.

There's a simple answer to that. You did notch one at a time, just didn't spend very long in some notches.

 

[Llama]

Might have missed it but I don't think anyone has said here that a Sprinter unit of any kind won't let you take traction power while the brake is in step 2 (or 3, or emergency). If you already have traction power applied and apply the brake then as soon as you hit brake step 2 it'll knock traction power off.

 

[Efini92]

3- release- 5-7 is how I drive them.

The correct way

 

[Ghawk2005]

Might have missed it but I don't think anyone has said here that a Sprinter unit of any kind won't let you take traction power while the brake is in step 2 (or 3, or emergency). If you already have traction power applied and apply the brake then as soon as you hit brake step 2 it'll knock traction power off.

Think I put that in my original post but thanks anyway. Good to confirm my thoughts

 

[Llama]

Ah yes so you did, apologies - I somehow didn't see/read "able to be".

 

[Ghawk2005]

Ah yes so you did, apologies - I somehow didn't see/read "able to be".

No problem. Appreciate any help offered

 

[D365]

Might have missed it but I don't think anyone has said here that a Sprinter unit of any kind won't let you take traction power while the brake is in step 2 (or 3, or emergency). If you already have traction power applied and apply the brake then as soon as you hit brake step 2 it'll knock traction power off.

For some reason I had started to write about the low speed relay, which drops out anywhere above 3mph on Class 156. But you're talking about a different interlocking, one which I can't remember off the top of my head.

 

[quattromatt]

There's a simple answer to that. You did notch one at a time, just didn't spend very long in some notches.

It wasn’t a DSM who told me off although he thought he was one lol

 

[craigybagel]

I normally use notch 3 or 4 with the brake in step one on the depot during prep when I'm performing a dynamic cab test and checking that the brakes can be released and power can be taken. In a noisy depot environment it can be difficult to hear the unit is actually taking power if you use a lower notch.

Well I was told by a ScotRail driver that when they first got their 170s the official company manual stated they were to be opened notch-by-notch and the next notch not taken until power had settled in the current one.

However, 170s have a fair delay in revving up to each new power setting and particularly when moving from OFF into a power setting and essentially that takes far to long (170s are sluggish enough as it is!). So I understand they just went with the standard 0-3-5-7 and have kept that ever since.

From what I've seen and heard both on this forum and talking to ScotRail drivers, their driving policies are a lot more detailed and strict about how exactly they want their trains to be driven compared to other TOCs.

 

[Efini92]

I normally use notch 3 or 4 with the brake in step one on the depot during prep when I'm performing a dynamic cab test and checking that the brakes can be released and power can be taken. In a noisy depot environment it can be difficult to hear the unit is actually taking power if you use a lower notch.


From what I've seen and heard both on this forum and talking to ScotRail drivers, their driving policies are a lot more detailed and strict about how exactly they want their trains to be driven compared to other TOCs.

Just out of interest, how come you use power notch 4 to see if power can be obtained?

 

[craigybagel]

Just out of interest, how come you use power notch 4 to see if power can be obtained?

Noise. Sometimes on a noisy depot it's hard to hear if you use a lower notch.

 

[Efini92]

Noise. Sometimes on a noisy depot it's hard to hear if you use a lower notch.

Cheers

 

[irish_rail]

The correct way

That depends where you are. On hilly parts of the network, notch 4 or even 5 are required just to gain forward momentum.

 

[craigybagel]

And then there's the joy of driving a 150/2 with a Perkins engined 158 on the back, where the notches below 5 are essentially useless. Especially fun at this time of year.....

 

[Efini92]

That depends where you are. On hilly parts of the network, notch 4 or even 5 are required just to gain forward momentum.

Actually I misread what was posted. I thought the 3 represented the brake handle.