Class 139 (Parry people movers)

[Respite]

I think we need to be sensible about this - it's proposed usage is at present only for the Stourbridge line.

The line is less than 1 mile long and presumably has a 25 / 30 mph top speed ?

What's the problem with using a PPM on it ? A 153 is probably overkill, by the time it's accelerated it must be on the brakes again. Presumably the 153 is rarely at capacity either.

Much better to release the 153 to a route where it will be properly used - Bedford - Bletchley ?.

Given this line is a complete one-off being so short, it merits trying something different.

I can see your point here, the branch is less than 3/4 of a mile long & not demanding at all(It's actually the shortest branchline in europe,well at least is was then). The 153 does 77 trips a day (well it did when I was a signalman there 1994-2001). With a 153 you actually used to shut off power at the end of stourbridge jcn platform & coast the rest of the way down grade, a bit more power for the way back.
Between rush hours it doesnt always get overly busy, but during peak times it was packed well over capacity. Also it was one of the best money earners in the WM due to the amount of people buying through tickets from Stourbridge Town station, Stourbridge jcn being located just over a mile from the town centre. But putting non standard stock on routes is still a death nell for lines like this, it makes it just far too easy to get them closed & ripped up when/if anything goes majorly wrong with the non stanard traction. So what happen's when the PPM goes wrong as all things do, we used to often get 153 failure's on the town branch. This just involved getting another 153 off Tysley & worst case scenario, going to rescue the demic 153, drag it off the branch, dump it in the yard & then carry on with the new 153. So are they going to have a spare PPM lying around? Just think of all the passengers who will miss there connecting trains due to a failure like that, once that starts to happen then people lose confidence in the service, maybe they will think of just driving to the Jcn station instead, but then again once they have got in the car then they will probably just drive their car all the way. This is how the rot sets in.

Oh & just another point, 153's are cheap...........dirt cheap! All our ATW 153's are not even charged a lease for, no one wanted them so we got them for paying my mile rather than a fixed yearly rate plus mileage.

 

[Mojo]

So are they going to have a spare PPM lying around? Just think of all the passengers who will miss there connecting trains due to a failure like that, once that starts to happen then people lose confidence in the service, maybe they will think of just driving to the Jcn station instead, but then again once they have got in the car then they will probably just drive their car all the way. This is how the rot sets in.

London Midland have ordered 2 x PPM60 vehicles.

A number of years ago they put class 121s on the Sudbury Branch line in North Essex and Suffolk. 'Great Eastern' (forum member) informed me that their reliability was appalling and in the latter weeks of operation it seemed buses ran more than the trains did! The unreliability and image of the line was seriously damaged because of these units operating as they were seen as uncomfortable, old-fashioned and unreliable.

 

[Z12XE]

True,

The plan was 1x121 in service, 1x121 spare at COL and 1x121 on maintenance at Bletchley. However due to the poor state it was often 2x121 dead at Bletchley and 1x121 dead at COL, or struggling in service.
Buses were ready at peak times - with 2 used every day waiting as a standby. Luckily it was OPRAF which stepped in and forced a deadline for this madness to end.

It was nothing short of a disaster - yet there is a huge difference here, these were 40 year old trains which managed to dodge the scrap man, attempting to run a service on a 12 mile branch line, at least the PPMs will be new and have a short line to operate over.

My question re. the Stourbridge Town branch is, once the PPMs take over full time, will the branch be isolated (semi-)permanently from the rest of the network? Or would LM still be able to take a 153 down then if they wanted to (assuming crew knowledge kept of course).
If it leads to proper trains being barred, this is where the rot starts.

 

[Respite]

Aa its been said that LM have ordered 2 PPM's which is news to me as the guys I know at LM said it was just one. But anyway can PPM's be used in multiple? I dont mean for service strengthing but rather for rescue in the event of a failure?

As for the 121's, I don't know about the bletchley setup, but our cardiff bay 121 manages ok most of the time. The thing is the age shouldnt be an issue, it's not like much more than the bodyshell & bogies are 40 years old anyway. Wheelsets,engines,transmission's etc etc have all been replaced in major services over the years. Trouble is some TOC's just get these units & then work them to death, well lets face it most TOC's just run every piece of rolling stock into the ground. In BR times when we had spare sets it was common for them to be taken out of service for major overhaul a lot more than now. These days due to limited stock availability overhauls are done to the maximum allowable time/miles. After all no TOC is going to spend money leasing trains to have them sat around as spares for long.
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My question re. the Stourbridge Town branch is, once the PPMs take over full time, will the branch be isolated (semi-)permanently from the rest of the network? Or would LM still be able to take a 153 down then if they wanted to (assuming crew knowledge kept of course).
If it leads to proper trains being barred, this is where the rot starts.

I would assume knowing Network rail that once the points leading to the branch become worn (two sets, one catch points the other normal worked off a groundframe just outside Stourbridge box), that these points will be plain railed (i.e.taken out of use). Well NR can't even keep on top of replacing mainline points for loops & emergency crossovers on the mainline's. Not helped by the fact that each point blade is made as a custom order to a custom size (Non of this Hornby R3084 LH turnout business ) They are also ordered from Germany mostly now but subcontracted out to bulgaria which leads to a massive delay in arrival (8 weeks for a crossover rail at salop just last week, but it was the wrong size on arrival, & a year & a 1/4 for a point blade at Bloxwich that was used almost everyday a few years ago).