Billericay - 30mph speed restriction on straight track

[louis97]

There are no signals within the 30 mph restriction, which is very short in length. The signals are consistently spaced on either side of the restriction, as though it doesn't exist.

There is a signal right before it starts however, a non-stop train could therefore approach it at almost double(?) the speed it could currently. It is possible that the sighting of that signal has a derogation due to the presence of the 30mph speed restriction. Spacing of the signals isn't really relevant here as the sighting distance can be extended using a banner repeater, and consistently spaced doesn't mean they all consistently visible from the same distance away.

 

[dk1]

Which signals in particular? Yes Norwich to Ely seems to be straight enough to be mainly 90mph all the way. I don't suppose they imagined 100mph capable Stadlers running along that route when they planned the resignalling. What's more the Stadlers (4-engined variants) can get to 100mph quite quickly too!

75-80 at Eccles up then not 90 until just before Harling. Approaching Brandon up it goes 90-85-90 for a non-existent signal. Lakenheath down goes 75-80 then not 90 until approaching Brandon. Approaching Harling Road down 90-80-90 for another non-existant signal. The entire route was resignalled in 2012 for 90mph from Hethersett to Lakenheath too but alas it didn’t go hand in hand with anything else. You can see by how poor & cheap it was done as two signal heads are missing at Thetford as used for others as no spares. We cannot now reverse back to Norwich in Thetford up platform & nothing can use the siding.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2024 ==

One particular GA manager has set it a goal to get this sorted before retirement but it appears no nearer now than it was back then

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2024 ==

Another classic was the EMU90 from Bannolds AHB to Dimmocks Cote AHB on the down between Waterbeach and Ely. It took around 20 years for permission to alter it to MU90.

 

[JBuchananGB]

As the OP of this thread about Billericay, which I think was probably my first initiated thread in the Forum, I am interested to see it resurrected. It is now eight years since the foot level crossing for which the 30mph restriction exists was removed. Of course very few trains in either direction pass that way without making a stop at Billericay. Maybe some ECS, or skip-stop trains in timetable recovery mode. So I'm not surprised that it is not a priority to remove the restriction. Anyway, thanks for the update.

 

[Railperf]

75-80 at Eccles up then not 90 until just before Harling. Approaching Brandon up it goes 90-85-90 for a non-existent signal. Lakenheath down goes 75-80 then not 90 until approaching Brandon. Approaching Harling Road down 90-80-90 for another non-existant signal. The entire route was resignalled in 2012 for 90mph from Hethersett to Lakenheath too but alas it didn’t go hand in hand with anything else. You can see by how poor & cheap it was done as two signal heads are missing at Thetford as used for others as no spares. We cannot now reverse back to Norwich in Thetford up platform & nothing can use the siding.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2024 ==

One particular GA manager has set it a goal to get this sorted before retirement but it appears no nearer now than it was back then

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2024 ==

Another classic was the EMU90 from Bannolds AHB to Dimmocks Cote AHB on the down between Waterbeach and Ely. It took around 20 years for permission to alter it to MU90.

It seems to be - in general - that unless there is a commercial benefit to improving these situations, then it seems the time to sign off these minor improvements - plus any costs to update signalling, TPWS, AWS positions and associatd paperwork - risk assessments just will not get done.
Not sure Billericay improvement saves more than 30 seconds to a minute of time - which only improves a minor operational issue.
You could in theory retime GE services onto and off the Southend Branch - i'm estimating easily 5 min improvement on the schedule between Southend Victoria and Liverpool Street But maybe GA prefer the slack timings becaue it helps them recover the timetable when delays occur. Or maybe between GA and Network Rail there is an 'understanding' that the infrastructure is too fragile to cope with a faster timetable at present - becausse it would mean running closer to line speed limits. At the moment you can pootle along at 70mph between Stratford and Shenfield to meet the 15 minute schedule! Those sorts of speeds are easier on the track than the full 90mph!
Glancing at Norwich to Ely - it seems the biggest issue is Ely North Jn. It seems I experience more time loss due to delays through there than would be gained by having a flat 90mph top speed between Ely and Thorpe jn. But for sure the Croxton 40mph restriction is a joke and must be costing a huge amount in fuel and brake wear.

 

[Thebaz]

When the A road level crossing east of Lewes on the Eastbourne main line
was replaced by a £10 million bridge Network Rail did not raise the 40 mph over the former crossing to 90 or 75 mph line speed until 15 months after the crossing was closed.
When the Sanderstead to Selsdon,Elmers end line closed in the 1980's & the junction was plain lined north of Sanderstead,BR & then Network Rail left the ground signal,two red lights in place. The tram was built much further north on part of the route,yet the ground signal has been burning to this day,pointing north to no one & nowhere. Maybe NR even send someone to hack their through the brambles & change the bulbs every few years. I reckon it uses £600 of electricity every year. That's £18,000 & rising so far. The truth is Network rail does not care. It's other people's money. Same mentality at Billericay. Same mentality everywhere. I often wonder if the guiding minds running NR actually hate railways from their actions.

I always wondered how much it must cost to keep the ground signal illuminated!

 

[John Webb]

.....When the Sanderstead to Selsdon,Elmers end line closed in the 1980's & the junction was plain lined north of Sanderstead,BR & then Network Rail left the ground signal,two red lights in place. The tram was built much further north on part of the route,yet the ground signal has been burning to this day,pointing north to no one & nowhere. Maybe NR even send someone to hack their through the brambles & change the bulbs every few years. I reckon it uses £600 of electricity every year. That's £18,000 & rising so far.....

I always wondered how much it must cost to keep the ground signal illuminated!

I think the estimated cost by XDM of the ground signal being left running is a bit high. These signals have 2 by 25W bulbs = 50W.
This is 1.2kWh a day or 438kWh a year. My electricity costs about 25p/kWh so a year's electricity would be around £110.

The problem of removing such a disused signal is not the expense of just disconnecting and removing the signal but is, I understand, the much greater cost of altering the associated interlocking and testing such alterations. But we're rather deviating from the main subject of this thread, I fear!

 

[iphone76]

It's a shame they are removing this speed restriction just after they are adding Billericay (and Shenfield) stops on pretty much all the Southminster trains which never used to stop there.

It would have been nice to fly through the ststion at this new line speed on a passenger train. Other than the late night/early morning Southend airport trains, I think the only other train which won't stop at Billericay now is a late afternoon weekday Southminster to Liverpool Street service.

 

[GW43125]

This is giving shades of the switch diamond at Basingstoke... don't think I can remember it not having a 30 or 50 limit on it at any point since the mid-2000s....
...new underwear was required when we came through the platform at 85 about a year ago because that's how I found out it had been lifted!

 

[4COR]

I think the estimated cost by XDM of the ground signal being left running is a bit high. These signals have 2 by 25W bulbs = 50W.
This is 1.2kWh a day or 438kWh a year. My electricity costs about 25p/kWh so a year's electricity would be around £110.

I'm glad it wasn't just me who was wondering how a ground signal could use that much! (I'm actually surprised the LEDs use that much energy in fact).

 

[John Webb]

I'm glad it wasn't just me who was wondering how a ground signal could use that much! (I'm actually surprised the LEDs use that much energy in fact).

If the line closed in the 1980s, then the signal is most likely not an LED signal and uses 110 volt filament bulbs underrun at 100v for long life.

 

[4COR]

If the line closed in the 1980s, then the signal is most likely not an LED signal and uses 110 volt filament bulbs underrun at 100v for long life.

I was fairly sure that the ground signal was replaced with an LED a while ago but happy to bow to people with better memories (it was a daily commute for me but I haven't lived down that way for some time now) - here it is in 2008: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/selsdon/index99.shtml (link to Disused Stations photo). The short section of track at Selsdon was of course only finally closed in 1993 (oil terminal siding).

 

[Railsigns]

I was fairly sure that the ground signal was replaced with an LED a while ago but happy to bow to people with better memories (it was a daily commute for me but I haven't lived down that way for some time now) - here it is in 2008: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/selsdon/index99.shtml (link to Disused Stations photo).

The fact that the signal is showing two red lights (as opposed to one red and one white) means that it's not one of the old filament lamp signals.

 

[John Webb]

All above noted re the ground signal - clearly an LED type with two reds.

 

[Railsigns]

The 30 mph speed restriction is due to be abolished tomorrow.

 

[iphone76]

The 30 mph speed restriction is due to be abolished tomorrow.

They need to remove/cover up the 30 signs on the up towards London. Still creep out. I'm sure it's the same on the down road too.

 

[Railperf]

They need to remove/cover up the 30 signs on the up towards London. Still creep out. I'm sure it's the same on the down road too.

So how long do we need to wait now for signs to be bagged up etc. Another year? The sectional appendix downloaded off NR website seems to be dated June 2024 and still shows the 30mph restriction. Not sure how quickly this gets updated.

 

[louis97]

So how long do we need to wait now for signs to be bagged up etc. Another year? The sectional appendix downloaded off NR website seems to be dated June 2024 and still shows the 30mph restriction. Not sure how quickly this gets updated.

The live sectional appendix has been updated, on the 20/07/2024, the document published on the NR website is only updated periodically.

 

[Railperf]

The live sectional appendix has been updated, on the 20/07/2024, the document published on the NR website is only updated periodically.

Does the live sectional appendix still show the restriction?

 

[iphone76]

So how long do we need to wait now for signs to be bagged up etc. Another year? The sectional appendix downloaded off NR website seems to be dated June 2024 and still shows the 30mph restriction. Not sure how quickly this gets updated.

More than likely. Although passing again this evening, the weeds may get to them first, especially on the up.

 

[louis97]

Does the live sectional appendix still show the restriction?

No, as I stated in my post, the live sectional appendix has been updated.

 

[Railperf]

No, as I stated in my post, the live sectional appendix has been updated.

Strange that the signs have at least not been bagged up temporarily! pending removal. I cannot imagine drivers will exceed the limit while the sign remains permanently in view.

 

[Teddyward]

Advance warning indicator and magnet removed from down. Indicator and magnet remain on the up. All 30 PSR signs appear to be gone. Advance warning indicator no magnet on the up( down) remains but new PSR 50-> 70 in place.

 

[Railperf]

Advance warning indicator and magnet removed from down. Indicator and magnet remain on the up. All 30 PSR signs appear to be gone. Advance warning indicator no magnet on the up( down) remains but new PSR 50-> 70 in place.

So on the up it was previously 70mph from MP 26 3/4 through Billericay station then 30mph before raising back to 80mph, and so we are saying the advance warning and associated magnet for the 30mph remain even though the signage and magnet for the 30mph are gone?
And on the down the advance warning for the 30 and associated magnet are removed as well as the 30mph sign and magnet. So where is the new 50mph restriction and between which points? Just not too clear on that. And the PDF version of the sectional appendix still dated June 2024 .

 

[geoffk]

Miles away from Billericay in West Yorkshire - when I lived in the area, Wakefield-bound trains passing non-stop through Normanton had a 30 mph restriction as there was a foot crossing to the island platform, the only means of access. A footbridge was built some years (12 years?) ago but the speed restriction remained. Is it still there, anyone know (as I'm a long way away now)? There is a curve through the platform in that direction but not one that appears to justify slowing to 30.

 

[Dr_Paul]

The tram was built much further north on part of the route, yet the ground signal has been burning to this day, pointing north to no one & nowhere. Maybe NR even send someone to hack their through the brambles & change the bulbs every few years. I reckon it uses £600 of electricity every year. That's £18,000 & rising so far. The truth is Network rail does not care. It's other people's money.

At Twickenham, one of the bays, platform 1, had been out of use for ages, it was unusable as sleepers had been removed in places and eventually the points leading on to the up slow were removed, yet the red signal at the end of the platform remained lit. I'm pretty sure it's not been lit after the other bay, platform 2, was relaid and made fit for use, but I'll have a look next time I'm there just to check.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2024 ==

It is reminiscent of highway projects I have known. A large capital project takes place, part of which involves erecting some signs such as "new crossing ahead" or "signal priorities changed". These signs are left in situ when the job is finished. Five, ten years later the faded signs, covered in moss still proclaim their message.

Leaving the signs is not a bad idea. When junctions have been altered and priorities changed, leaving the sign there helps remind drivers to be careful. This really applies to local drivers who have become accustomed to the old layout and priorities over the years and might well instinctively approach the rearranged junction in a way suitable to the old layout and therefore need a 'jog' to remind them of the changes.

 

[GW43125]

At Twickenham, one of the bays, platform 1, had been out of use for ages, it was unusable as sleepers had been removed in places and eventually the points leading on to the up slow were removed, yet the red signal at the end of the platform remained lit. I'm pretty sure it's not been lit after the other bay, platform 2, was relaid and made fit for use, but I'll have a look next time I'm there just to check.

All reference to platform 1 was swept away when the area was resignalled in 2022. Platform 2 remains fully signalled (and a crossover at St Margarets means it can now even be approached from Richmond!) but is still yet to see a train in my lifetime...

 

[Teddyward]

So on the up it was previously 70mph from MP 26 3/4 through Billericay station then 30mph before raising back to 80mph, and so we are saying the advance warning and associated magnet for the 30mph remain even though the signage and magnet for the 30mph are gone?
And on the down the advance warning for the 30 and associated magnet are removed as well as the 30mph sign and magnet. So where is the new 50mph restriction and between which points? Just not too clear on that. And the PDF version of the sectional appendix still dated June 2024 .

At the time of writing, the advance warning and the magnet for the 30 on the up remained but the PSR sign was removed.
Furthermore on the up in the down (simbids) direction the small advance warning for the 30 remained but there never was a magnet for it in the first place. It was magnetless.
50mph only relates to bi-di up in the down direction a few hundred metres from the station, then just before the platform becomes 70 again.

 

[Railperf]

At the time of writing, the advance warning and the magnet for the 30 on the up remained but the PSR sign was removed.
Furthermore on the up in the down (simbids) direction the small advance warning for the 30 remained but there never was a magnet for it in the first place. It was magnetless.
50mph only relates to bi-di up in the down direction a few hundred metres from the station, then just before the platform becomes 70 again.

Took a trip along there today. The driver still seeming to brake down to around 40mph a fair way from the platform on the down line - as if a 40mph restriction had replaced the 30. On the up, our driver had a green signal leaving Billericay but didn't exceed 20mph until we were well away from the station. No TSRs reported..

 

[iphone76]

Took a trip along there today. The driver still seeming to brake down to around 40mph a fair way from the platform on the down line - as if a 40mph restriction had replaced the 30. On the up, our driver had a green signal leaving Billericay but didn't exceed 20mph until we were well away from the station. No TSRs reported..

Yes. It seems very hit or miss depending on the driver whether they slow down to 30mph where the restriction was.