Been hit with TIR! :(

[ry20420]

Please can someone help? I've been hit with a TIR today for having advanced ticket and not for my current train.

I only found out at the barriers at Liverpool.

The inspector first told me that the eticket I had was an advanced ticket from the midlands to Liverpool was the wrong day and was also advance. I always have an open return but for some reason I've errored on the app this time around.

Now what's happened and after further asked for more clarity at the barrier inspector he started to become defensive and somewhat incensed and went on to therefor issue an TIR???

What does this now mean? he took all my details and videoed me. So what happens now? This is most upsetting

 

[John R]

What do you mean he started to become defensive and started talking garbage? There’s no reason why he should be defensive as he’s clearly correct in identifying that you didn’t have a valid ticket for the journey undertaken.

 

[WesternLancer]

Please can someone help? I've been hit with a TIR today for having advanced ticket and not for my current train.

I only found out at the barriers at Liverpool.

The inspector first told me that the eticket I had was an advanced ticket from the midlands to Liverpool was the wrong day and was also advance. I always have an open return but for some reason I've errored on the app this time around.

Now what's happened and after further asked for more clarity at the barrier inspector he started to become defensive and talked to me garbage. He then said the ticket option is gone and I will now have stop here and issue an TIR???

What does this now mean? he took all my details and videoed me. So what happens now? Will i have to go to court. I'm scared ****less now

What should I expect in the post?

Hi and welcome

Assuming you gave correct address details within a few weeks you will almost certainly get a letter from the railway (hard copy post), it will look like a threat to prosecute you but if you read it carefully it will be a chance to 'give your side of the story' engage with it and reply quickly you will have a very good chance of avoiding this going to court.

It sounds like you made an honest mistake here and travelled by train with the wrong ticket. Unfortunately as you know the Advance tickets have no flexibility and if it was not used on the correct train and date it technically has no validity for the journey.

When you get the letter you will need to reply with a brief explanation, an apology and seek to persuade them this was a one off error, not any sort of deliberate attempt to evade the train fare.

All you can do now is wait to hear from them then when you do you can head back here and ask for advice on how best to reply. But have a look at some other threads for examples of advice on how to reply to such letters so you can get an idea of the process.

You could make a few noted whilst it is fresh in your mind - and keep some records from previous ticket buying to show you almost always have an open return in case that helps convince them this was juts an error.

Make sure you can get access to your post for at least the next 6 months so you can be sure to avoid missing any letters about this (letters not responded to will almost certainly get 'escalated' to the next stage of the process, which does bring with it the risk of being taken to court - so you need to avoid this).

 

[ry20420]

What do you mean he started to become defensive and started talking garbage? There’s no reason why he should be defensive as he’s clearly correct in identifying that you didn’t have a valid ticket for the journey undertaken.

He just got incensed the more I questioned him. I mean I had a ticket it was not like I didn't pay.

I've never not paid a railway fail at all ever

 

[AlterEgo]

So you were asked to purchase a new ticket on the train, or at the barrier? Or was this a penalty fare? Were you given any paperwork? What did you send by email?

 

[John R]

He just got incensed the more I questioned him. I mean I had a ticket it was not like I didn't pay. This comment angered him and he then said sorry I'm going 'To do you a TIR'.

I've never not paid a railway fail at all ever

When you're in a hole, best not to keep digging. Yes, you made a mistake, but at the end of the day your ticket wasn't even valid for the correct day, let alone the correct train, so you have to take some responsibility for the situation you were in. Hopefully the fact that he elected to video you isn't indicative that you were aggressive or abusive, as that would certainly not count in your favour in terms of trying to negotiate an out of court settlement.

The best outcome you can hope for is a settlement that involves paying the full single fare for the journey, together with an administrative settlement of around £150. That sounds painful, but will be much cheaper than a prosecution, which is the alternative if they don't offer a settlement. Given it was a mistake rather than fare evasion, provided you are suitable contrite and apologetic then I would think your chances of getting a settlement are pretty good.

 

[ry20420]

When you're in a hole, best not to keep digging. Yes, you made a mistake, but at the end of the day your ticket wasn't even valid for the correct day, let alone the correct train, so you have to take some responsibility for the situation you were in. Hopefully the fact that he elected to video you isn't indicative that you were aggressive or abusive, as that would certainly not count in your favour in terms of trying to negotiate an out of court settlement.

The best outcome you can hope for is a settlement that involves paying the full single fare for the journey, together with an administrative settlement of around £150. That sounds painful, but will be much cheaper than a prosecution, which is the alternative if they don't offer a settlement. Given it was a mistake rather than fare evasion, provided you are suitable contrite and apologetic then I would think your chances of getting a settlement are pretty good.

Yes indeed. Was 100% a mistake I rarely ever not got an incorrect ticket at all ever so for sure a one of mistake. I was just abit flummoxed that it was not like I didn't pay. He could see I would never do that intentionally? By the end of the encounter the barrier agent could see I was very honest and very willing to accept it was a honest mistake. Anyway thankyou for your replies

 

[WesternLancer]

So you were asked to purchase a new ticket on the train, or at the barrier? Or was this a penalty fare? Were you given any paperwork? What did you send by email?

I don't think the Op says they have sent anything by e-mail.

I concluded that the ticket was rejected by the barrier (assume due to being wrong date on it) and then the OP was questioned by a barrier line staff member or revenue officer who was at the barrier line.

 

[ry20420]

I don't think the Op says they have sent anything by e-mail.

I concluded that the ticket was rejected by the barrier (assume due to being wrong date on it) and then the OP was questioned by a barrier line staff member or revenue officer who was at the barrier line.

Yes at the barrier. Thanks for replying folks

 

[AlterEgo]

So basically you were told, correctly, that your ticket wasn’t valid. It wasn’t even for the right day. That’s unfortunate and I’m sure it was an error, but that’s on you I’m afraid; it seems like the inspector was initially trying to charge you for a new ticket to cover the journey you made.

The inspector has then withdrawn that option after, instead of paying for a new ticket as you’re obliged to, you “asked for clarity” which sounds like a euphemism. They’ve turned on their body cam, which they only do if there’s a dispute, issued a TIR, and now you will have a letter to respond to in due course.

Unfortunately this will be an expensive and salutary lesson in how to handle being in the wrong. The company will likely settle for the fare due plus a hefty administration fee.

I don't think the Op says they have sent anything by e-mail.

They did, but have since edited that part out. It is important for us to know what was said in case it affects how the OP should be advised to respond to the letter when it comes.

 

[island]

He just got incensed the more I questioned him.

Someone without a ticket should not be "questioning" members of staff.

I mean I had a ticket it was not like I didn't pay.

You didn't have a ticket for the journey you made.

I've never not paid a railway fail at all ever

Well you have now.

Sounds to me like the inspector was willing to treat this as a mistake and sell a new ticket, but the passenger failed the attitude test and that option was withdrawn in favour of a report for prosecution.

 

[fandroid]

The OP needs to be aware that the rail companies come across many different tactics for avoiding paying a correct fare. Surfing the ticket site for a very unpopular train with the cheapest tickets is one possibility, followed by using it on another train. They don't know that ticket was bought as a genuine mistake, and the OP's attitude meant the inspector decided that the benefit of the doubt wouldn't apply.