Are help points on stations necessary any more?

[Bletchleyite]

With mobile phone ownership almost at 100% now, I do wonder what the benefit of maintaining these actually is. I haven't used one since the mid 1990s when I didn't have a mobile phone!

(I know there are smartphone refuseniks, but this is just about making a telephone call - almost nobody doesn't have a mobile phone of some sort now, even if it's a dumbphone capable only of calls and SMS).

In terms of the issue of passengers stuck inside a closed station, having a signed means of emergency exit would seem to be sensible, be that a key in a break glass box or a traditional push bar.

 

[Horizon22]

I would suggest signal is one reason. Pretty sure help points are connected via a landline.

Also to alert someone to an emergency in the most direction method - i.e to TOC control* who can call a signaller much quicker than via a 999 call.

* I am aware some "Emergency" buttons do not route this way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also to alert someone to an emergency in the most direction method - i.e to TOC control who can call a signaller much quicker than via a 999 call.

They often don't seem to go to TOC control. In some cases, the green button goes to National Rail Enquiries (in all their uselessness) and the blue one to 999. If accessible, a signal post telephone, much as they aren't meant for public use, would be a more effective way of saying "some idiot has driven their car onto the line at <station>, stop all trains now before someone dies", or "some idiot is wandering round the line, stop trains and cut the power".

(I recall in the old days Merseyrail stations had telephones on the platforms marked "electrification" - presumably they went to somewhere that was capable of cutting the power quickly?)

 

[Horizon22]

They often don't seem to go to TOC control. In some cases, the green button goes to National Rail Enquiries (in all their uselessness) and the blue one to 999.

Think you've got those mixed up - green is emergency, blue is information. You also replied before I finished my edit!

 

[The exile]

Yes - designing a situation where people are forced to use their own devices to resolve a problem of the railway”s making is wrong. What is needed is a toughening up of where they are routed to - NRE offshore unable to do anything than parrot information is pointless- needs properly trained people who are familiar with the area and can offer and authorise alternatives.

 

[GusB]

With mobile phone ownership almost at 100% now, I do wonder what the benefit of maintaining these actually is. I haven't used one since the mid 1990s when I didn't have a mobile phone!

(I know there are smartphone refuseniks, but this is just about making a telephone call - almost nobody doesn't have a mobile phone of some sort now, even if it's a dumbphone capable only of calls and SMS).

Please stop using the term "refuseniks". While the number of people who don't have mobile phones will diminish over time, there will still be a few who don't. For those who do have a mobile, there's no guarantee that their phone will have a signal at a given station. If someone happens to be on a pay-as-you-go tariff, they won't be able to do anything without having any credit in their account. Your argument falls apart.

I discovered fairly recently that I was unable to make or receive calls on my old pay-as-you-go number. It turned out that, despite the phone being 4G, it wasn't equipped for 4G calling and relied on the recently switched off 3G network for calls; there was no notification from my network that my phone would stop working.

Genuine question to those who are in the know - how are station help-points connected? Are they connected via an existing railway network, or do they rely on a public network (fixed line or mobile)?

 

[JLH4AC]

Genuine question to those who are in the know - how are station help-points connected? Are they connected via an existing railway network, or do they rely on a public network (fixed line or mobile)?

The help-points at the moment are connected to the Public Switched Telephone Network via a landline connection, this is due to change with the PSTN being switched off in 2027 though they will likely be switched over to the same VoIP network that that is replacing the PSTN.

 

[lkpridgeon]

With mobile phone ownership almost at 100% now, I do wonder what the benefit of maintaining these actually is. I haven't used one since the mid 1990s when I didn't have a mobile phone!

(I know there are smartphone refuseniks, but this is just about making a telephone call - almost nobody doesn't have a mobile phone of some sort now, even if it's a dumbphone capable only of calls and SMS).

In terms of the issue of passengers stuck inside a closed station, having a signed means of emergency exit would seem to be sensible, be that a key in a break glass box or a traditional push bar.

Not until the train operators keep their customer service numbers staffed and open 24/7. There's been too many times I've been stuck due to cancellations/delays and had to rely on the help point to get alternative transport because the customer service line is closed. At least with SWR if you press enough you get through to control and not the less than useless NRE helpline.

 

[dmncf]

The help-points at the moment are connected to the Public Switched Telephone Network via a landline connection, this is due to change with the PSTN being switched off in 2027 though they will likely be switched over to the same VoIP network that that is replacing the PSTN.

It's strange how when you use a station help point, the person at the other end often has to ask 'what station are you calling from?'. Strange that the network doesn't figure that out for them.

 

[Frontera2]

It's strange how when you use a station help point, the person at the other end often has to ask 'what station are you calling from?'. Strange that the network doesn't figure that out for them.

It depends. If it's a Help Point Information call that's answered by NRE, the agent gets a "whisper tone" in their ear telling them where the call is coming from.

For others, it all depends on the capability of the back-end system and whether they have the capability to present the CLI (Calling Line Identity) of the number that the call is being received from and then translate said number into something meaningful.

 

[Meerkat]

With mobile phone ownership almost at 100% now, I do wonder what the benefit of maintaining these actually is. I haven't used one since the mid 1990s when I didn't have a mobile phone!

(I know there are smartphone refuseniks, but this is just about making a telephone call - almost nobody doesn't have a mobile phone of some sort now, even if it's a dumbphone capable only of calls and SMS).

In terms of the issue of passengers stuck inside a closed station, having a signed means of emergency exit would seem to be sensible, be that a key in a break glass box or a traditional push bar.

Too many what ifs….no reception, flat battery, the emergency is that you have lost your phone/had it stolen…
Do help points jump the queue over those who have dialled up?

 

[jh64]

There are still a few stations along the Tyne Valley line with little to no mobile signal. My data connection always conks out around Stocksfield.

 

[Belperpete]

I discovered fairly recently that I was unable to make or receive calls on my old pay-as-you-go number. It turned out that, despite the phone being 4G, it wasn't equipped for 4G calling and relied on the recently switched off 3G network for calls; there was no notification from my network that my phone would stop working.

Why would you expect your network operator to notify you about an issue with your phone?
It is a bit like expecting the BBC or ITV to notify you about an issue with your TV set, or the national grid to notify you about an issue with your kettle.

And how can a 4G phone not be equipped for 4G calling? Was it because you had put a 3G SIM card in it?

 

[DanNCL]

Yes they are essential. Every unstaffed station should have a working help point at all times.
For starters not everyone has a mobile phone and it’s generally the most vulnerable in society who don’t have one.
Not everywhere has phone signal, generally that’s in remote areas but a surprising number of urban areas have poor phone signal too.
And then there’s the fact that some TOCs are better than others at responding to any form of correspondence. Some TOCs aren’t contactable by the public 24/7 by any means other than an help point, and some (if not all TOCs) take a while to get through to an actual person on the phone or on social media.

So yes, help points absolutely are essential.

 

[JamesT]

Why would you expect your network operator to notify you about an issue with your phone?
It is a bit like expecting the BBC or ITV to notify you about an issue with your TV set, or the national grid to notify you about an issue with your kettle.

And how can a 4G phone not be equipped for 4G calling? Was it because you had put a 3G SIM card in it?

The network operator is the one carrying the call, they can see what method it's using. I know vodafone sent me many notices when I had an older phone before they switched off 3G.

4G voice uses something called VoLTE which requires a degree of setup on both ends. There certainly used to be several of the smaller operators who had only implemented the data side and were falling back to 2G/3G for the voice. On the handset side, some of the earliest 4G phones didn't implement VoLTE. But we're talking iPhone 5 era stuff.

 

[twpsaesneg]

Mobile phones aren't much use for calling for assistance if they are flat / you've dropped them on the line / some scrote has just stolen it from you on the station. Given the diminishing number of operational payphones in today's world a way of getting help for which the comms and power are already there for seems to be a good idea. Also the cost in recovering them and making good would probably outweigh the minimal cost of maintenance!

 

[Ken H]

A help point is fixed geographically so its easy to determine which station the caller is on
A mobile only knows what cell its on unless it has GPS turned on.
If I were in trouble I would use the help point first for just that reason.
I have made the same decision calling 999 for the same reason.

 

[Pigeon]

I don't have a mobile phone. Of any kind. I only have a landline phone because I get ADSL over the line.

Having said that, I'm not sure how much use I would find a station help point anyway; I've never used one, but I strongly suspect that the sound would be far too quiet and of far too poor quality for the thing to be even close to usable, on general principles of the kind of performance I expect from devices of that kind.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

With mobile phone ownership almost at 100% now, I do wonder what the benefit of maintaining these actually is. I haven't used one since the mid 1990s when I didn't have a mobile phone!

(I know there are smartphone refuseniks, but this is just about making a telephone call - almost nobody doesn't have a mobile phone of some sort now, even if it's a dumbphone capable only of calls and SMS).

In terms of the issue of passengers stuck inside a closed station, having a signed means of emergency exit would seem to be sensible, be that a key in a break glass box or a traditional push bar.

Am I missing something with your post? Part of the purpose of the help points is emergencies, like being robbed on a station and having your phone amongst other things stolen so you need to get help, the help point achieves that, many stations have lost public phoneboxes so what would be your solution to replace this facility?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Am I missing something with your post? Part of the purpose of the help points is emergencies, like being robbed on a station and having your phone amongst other things stolen so you need to get help, the help point achieves that, many stations have lost public phoneboxes so what would be your solution to replace this facility?

Not very likely the Police will attend in person for a simple mugging these days, so to be honest I'd call them when I'd worked out how to get home (probably by agreeing with a taxi driver to pay him on arrival). Or ask another passenger to call them.

In my observation they are very seldom used by anyone for any purpose, and thus aren't worth having any more.

 

[The exile]

Not very likely the Police will attend in person for a simple mugging these days, so to be honest I'd call them when I'd worked out how to get home (probably by agreeing with a taxi driver to pay him on arrival). Or ask another passenger to call them.

In my observation they are very seldom used by anyone for any purpose, and thus aren't worth having any more.

Much of the raison d’etre of such points means they won’t be used that much. Their “next train” function has largely been superseded and stations with high footfall are likely to be staffed anyway. I’ve seen plenty of people use them and used them myself (admittedly with little positive result).