Alcohol limits for train drivers/staff on preserved railway lines

[PaxmanValenta]

On heritage steam railway lines in Britain, are there strict alcohol limits imposed on train drivers, firemen and other staff/volunteers?

The reason I ask is because these lines are on private land and are not part of Network rail which has its own alcohol limits of below 20mg per 100ml of breath, neither are they part of the public highway.

Do individual heritage railways set their own alcohol limits or is there a national recommended limit? Is it the same as network rail standards or the same as that required by motorists of 35mg/100ml? Are there penalties for steam train drivers or staff who exceed the limit?

Do the rules apply to signallers, permanent way volunteers and engineers?
Also do the rules cover narrow gauge and miniature gauge public railways?

 

[theageofthetra]

On a recent trip to Australia a member of staff there on a heritage line told me they have random med screenings for drink/drugs for all staff involved in railway operation- the 'limit' being in effect zero. Over here I would be interested to know how it applies to a small private 'garden' railway open to invited guests or minature ones such as Great Cockrow or the numerous model engineering society lines out there.

 

[Jonfun]

On heritage steam railway lines in Britain, are there strict alcohol limits imposed on train drivers, firemen and other staff/volunteers?

The reason I ask is because these lines are on private land and are not part of Network rail which has its own alcohol limits of below 20mg per 100ml of breath, neither are they part of the public highway.

Do individual heritage railways set their own alcohol limits or is there a national recommended limit? Is it the same as network rail standards or the same as that required by motorists of 35mg/100ml? Are there penalties for steam train drivers or staff who exceed the limit?

Do the rules apply to signallers, permanent way volunteers and engineers?
Also do the rules cover narrow gauge and miniature gauge public railways?

For Safety Critical railway staff (ie the members of staff who have responsibility for the safe movement of trains and the equipment to allow such) the law (Transport and Works Act IIRC) prescribes that they must not work whilst under the influence of drink or drugs. The penalty therefore would be a lovely trip to court, and probably prison if you've injured or killed someone whilst under the influence.

I don't think many heritage railways do random medscreens but most (all?) will do 'for cause' testing following a serious incident, or if you turn up stinking of drink. If fail and you're not prosecuted then generally speaking you won't work in any capacity on said railway again.

Generally speaking railway undertakings both mainline and heritage will apply these rules consitently across the board, whether you're a train driver or an onboard cleaner.

 

[PaxmanValenta]

Another reason for tough rules on alcohol on heritage railways I guess is not just driving but operating a steam locomotive boiler (either on the line or steaming up in a siding). A boiler is a very dangerous piece of equipment with potential of a massive explosion that could cause serious injury and fatalities, if not looked after and monitored correctly.

 

[Jonfun]

A boiler's maintenance would legally be classed as a Safety Critical activity as it's maintaining rolling stock. I'm not sure whether there's any specific laws relating to operation of steam engines, locomotive or otherwise. It wouldn't prescribe an alcohol limit stricter than a railway one though if there was.

 

[John Webb]

From looking at Heritage Railway Association documents, it would seem that the requirements regarding alcohol levels would probably be found in the individual railway's Rule Book. This should be issued to each member of the railway's staff, whether paid or volunteer, so that they know the policy of their particular railway regarding alcohol consumption (or lack of it) while at work.

 

[cin88]

I'm fairly certain that the ELR keeps to the same standard as the main line. We're also liable to be tested should the RO believe us to be under the influence.

It says on the booking on form something to the effect of "by signing on you confirm that you have read all notices relevant to your duties, are rested and fit for work and you are free of alcohol or drugs". I'm not sure what the precise wording is, all I care about is not being on the wrong side of the rules.

 

[DarloRich]

it should be bloody 0 if it isnt already!

 

[LowLevel]

The Transport and Works Act 1992 applies to heritage railways, tramways etc. Most lines as said already only do for cause post incident tests but some (as an example the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland) do random tests as well.

 

[SemaphoreSam]

As for "heritage railways", shouldn't the rules reflect the standards in effect at the time the railways were part of the national system? Realism might require a certain percentage of "affected" personal; only in the interests of representation of past practice? Sam

 

[Taffy Cross]

Hi,

Here in Oz in doesn't matter what scale gauge etc you are if you operate a railway that is open to the public or convey freight on a railway you have to comply to the same regulations and rules as the big boys. Random drug and alcohol tests not only apply to the frontline staff that you would normally think of such as Drivers' Guards and Signallers but to all staff. I drove nothing more than a PC for years but was regularly selected for a random drug test and everyone was breath tested. If you refused you basically signed your resignation.

Bye for now,

Stephen.

 

[LowLevel]

As for "heritage railways", shouldn't the rules reflect the standards in effect at the time the railways were part of the national system? Realism might require a certain percentage of "affected" personal; only in the interests of representation of past practice? Sam

Please tell me that the online thing is affecting my sarcasm monitor and that you're not suggesting that drunks operating trains is a good thing

 

[Ploughman]

it should be bloody 0 if it isnt already!

I believe that a Zero level is not possible as there is a certain level of background Alcohol present in the body.
I think the limit is set as close to zero as practically possible though.

 

[SemaphoreSam]

Please tell me that the online thing is affecting my sarcasm monitor and that you're not suggesting that drunks operating trains is a good thing

Nothing turns me off more than the clean, pristine locos of the heritage railways; they were dirty, hard working machines when doing what they were built to do. If you want to see how the railway actually was, warts and all, accept that working conditions, and working practices, weren't what they are now. The railways were dangerous and dirty; the men working them worked for relatively little money, very long hours, and, as was practiced at the time, alcoholism was widespread, and much more accepted. Even with that, few accidents were caused by this, as men were able to deal with it, for the most part; some, though, could not resist the brew during working hours. Truth is ugly sometimes; deal with it. Heritage railways supposedly try to replicate past practices; please don't advocate a pretty Barbie Doll replacement for what actually was. Sam

 

[tsr]

Nothing turns me off more than the clean, pristine locos of the heritage railways; they were dirty, hard working machines when doing what they were built to do. If you want to see how the railway actually was, warts and all, accept that working conditions, and working practices, weren't what they are now. The railways were dangerous and dirty; the men working them worked for relatively little money, very long hours, and, as was practiced at the time, alcoholism was widespread, and much more accepted. Even with that, few accidents were caused by this, as men were able to deal with it, for the most part; some, though, could not resist the brew during working hours. Truth is ugly sometimes; deal with it. Heritage railways supposedly try to replicate past practices; please don't advocate a pretty Barbie Doll replacement for what actually was. Sam

Oh dear.

A heritage railway is a railway - the emphasis should always, from an "operational" point of view, be on the "railway" and not the "heritage".

With any functioning heritage railway, you will have large and lethal vehicles operated with the purpose of transporting and entertaining the general public. There is a massive responsibility to keep the staff and said public safe in such operations; it is not the case that alcohol needs to be imbibed for an atmospheric, attractive and interesting rail service to operate, nor is it at all safe in any circumstances. The aesthetic of a railway comes second to the operation thereof, but the safe operation can lead to a responsible environment in which the majority of the good can be displayed, as well as the realism of working conditions if that's what's in demand, without anything impairing the safety of the line.

For many of those to whom a heritage railway appeals - tourists and typical family groups - the point of preservation is not to mimic the ugly truth of a bygone era of drink-driving locomotives full of fire and boiling water, but a nostalgia of an atmospheric time in which there was a majesty to a railway not entirely replicated by modern commuter belt or even intercity operations today. There is absolutely no need nor call for drunkenness at work in order to run a sustainable tourist operation, nor to preserve historical machinery for the interest of enthusiasts and engineers. If anything, you would get a lot fewer travellers in the UK (which features some of the world's safest railways) if it was well-known that a railway was unsafe for them and their children to ride.

I think my railway staff colleagues would agree on this...

[As an aside, UK heritage railways are not clean and pristine places; whilst locomotives may be kept in good condition and trim, there is a massive amount of elbow grease, grime and hard work behind the scenes and also perfectly visible in the safe, necessary and interesting activities such as shunting and on-shed maintenance in areas with spectator viewpoints.]

 

[LowLevel]

None of the preserved lines I've ever visited have been pristine, though they do tend to feel a bit 'sparkly', as if they've just opened whatever the era.

A working museum needs to be safe - please bear in mind that staff and passenger deaths on the railway also used to be pretty high and replicating delays due to your train taking off a pway ganger's head or little Timmy getting dragged to his death having tried to alight a moving train are unlikely to be popular move or lead to a long lived operation either - anymore than the driver turning up wasted and crashing into the train on a run around.

I am a railwayman and know plenty of old hands - some even going back to the days of steam, just about. They all have something in common, they all know of various accidents that were mostly covered up and they all know and remember more than one or two of their colleagues who were killed in the job. Recreating the experience does not need to go as far as killed the re-enactors (or the paying visitor).

 

[Taunton]

Nothing turns me off more than the clean, pristine locos of the heritage railways; they were dirty, hard working machines when doing what they were built to do.

No they weren't; when many older preserved locos were built many companies took particular efforts to clean them to an immaculate standard at all times. It was only after WW2 that standards slipped way down from that. Older locos were embellished with brass and copper work that crews polished, even while standing between trips, and coming on duty an hour or two early, unpaid, to shine up "your" locomotive was not unknown, in the days when locos had a regular crew each, although there were full complements of cleaners on the shed staff as well.