Advice needed

[percypanda]

Hello everyone! I had an unfortunate incident at London Paddington where I was aggressively and erronously refused travel by a member of GWR staff.

I regularly travel between Cambridge and Maidenhead on an off-peak return, which has ticket restriction code 4J. As per the National Rail website, and all ticketing websites (including GWRs website!) this is valid on all afternoon/evening peak trains, with only morning peak restrictions. https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/4j/

In the past 18 months of using this route, I have had no issue. However, last Thursday (17th) my paper ticket did not scan, so I showed it to the member of staff at the gateline at Paddington. She aggressively told me that I would not be allowed on the fast peak train to Maidenhead at 16:50, and pointed to the slower Elizabeth line service departing from the adjacent platform at 16:47. I attempted to calmly clarify that the off-peak evening restrictions did not apply to my ticket, but she rudely shouted at me "I will not look at that website (the National Rail website), you listen to me and read the list of peak trains on the wall, I do not want to talk to you". She then threatened to tell all staff in the vicinity (where there were also British Transport Police walking around) that if I even so attempted to board the peak train she would get me thrown off the train. I ended up getting onto the Elizabeth line as I was running out of time for both trains, and was late to a subsequent appointment.

I have made a complaint to GWR both on X (where they acknowledged I was correct), and via their complaints service, but they have told me that I am wrong again even after attaching the National Rail ticket restrictions page. This is the exact response:

----
Thank you for contacting Great Western Railway regarding your recent experience at Paddington Station on 9th February 2025.

I am sorry to hear about the difficulties you encountered with our gate line staff and the subsequent delay to your journey. Your Off-Peak return ticket between Cambridge and Maidenhead, with restriction code 4J, is indeed valid for travel on any train departing after 09:30 on weekdays. However, Off-Peak tickets are not valid for travel during evening peak hours, typically between 16:00 - 19:00. Therefore, the 16:50 service from Paddington to Maidenhead would fall within this restricted period.

It appears there was a misunderstanding regarding the validity of your ticket during evening peak hours. I apologise for any confusion caused by this situation. Our staff should have provided clearer information to help you understand the applicable restrictions.

To address this matter appropriately, we would like to investigate the incident further and provide feedback to the staff involved. Could you please provide the following information:

• The name or a description of the staff member you interacted with, if available.
• Any additional details or documentation that might assist in our investigation.

?Regarding compensation for the delay and inconvenience caused, please submit a claim through our Delay Repay scheme, providing the necessary journey details and any supporting documents. You can find more information and submit your claim here: https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/delay-repay

Once again, please accept my apologies for the inconvenience and distress this experience has caused you. We are committed to improving our services and ensuring such incidents do not recur.

Thank you for getting in touch. I look forward to your response and assisting you further.
---

How should I reply to this??

 

[jfollows]

To Dean Haynes, the manager of Paddington station?
Dean.Haynes@gwr.com I guess.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello everyone! I had an unfortunate incident at London Paddington where I was aggressively and erronously refused travel by a member of GWR staff.

I regularly travel between Cambridge and Maidenhead on an off-peak return, which has ticket restriction code 4J. As per the National Rail website, and all ticketing websites (including GWRs website!) this is valid on all afternoon/evening peak trains, with only morning peak restrictions. https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/4j/

In the past 18 months of using this route, I have had no issue. However, last Thursday (17th) my paper ticket did not scan, so I showed it to the member of staff at the gateline at Paddington. She aggressively told me that I would not be allowed on the fast peak train to Maidenhead at 16:50, and pointed to the slower Elizabeth line service departing from the adjacent platform at 16:47. I attempted to calmly clarify that the off-peak evening restrictions did not apply to my ticket, but she rudely shouted at me "I will not look at that website (the National Rail website), you listen to me and read the list of peak trains on the wall, I do not want to talk to you". She then threatened to tell all staff in the vicinity (where there were also British Transport Police walking around) that if I even so attempted to board the peak train she would get me thrown off the train. I ended up getting onto the Elizabeth line as I was running out of time for both trains, and was late to a subsequent appointment.

I have made a complaint to GWR both on X (where they acknowledged I was correct), and via their complaints service, but they have told me that I am wrong again even after attaching the National Rail ticket restrictions page. This is the exact response:

----
Thank you for contacting Great Western Railway regarding your recent experience at Paddington Station on 9th February 2025.

I am sorry to hear about the difficulties you encountered with our gate line staff and the subsequent delay to your journey. Your Off-Peak return ticket between Cambridge and Maidenhead, with restriction code 4J, is indeed valid for travel on any train departing after 09:30 on weekdays. However, Off-Peak tickets are not valid for travel during evening peak hours, typically between 16:00 - 19:00. Therefore, the 16:50 service from Paddington to Maidenhead would fall within this restricted period.

It appears there was a misunderstanding regarding the validity of your ticket during evening peak hours. I apologise for any confusion caused by this situation. Our staff should have provided clearer information to help you understand the applicable restrictions.

To address this matter appropriately, we would like to investigate the incident further and provide feedback to the staff involved. Could you please provide the following information:

• The name or a description of the staff member you interacted with, if available.
• Any additional details or documentation that might assist in our investigation.

?Regarding compensation for the delay and inconvenience caused, please submit a claim through our Delay Repay scheme, providing the necessary journey details and any supporting documents. You can find more information and submit your claim here: https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/delay-repay

Once again, please accept my apologies for the inconvenience and distress this experience has caused you. We are committed to improving our services and ensuring such incidents do not recur.

Thank you for getting in touch. I look forward to your response and assisting you further.
---

How should I reply to this??

I think there have been plenty of other threads on here about repeated examples of this poor training at Paddington - maybe ask your MP to as the GWR chief executive what they are going to do to stop it

Or actually ask your MP to ask the Minister to ask GWR what they are going to do about it since GWR are operating a service on behalf for the Transport ministry and are not being employed to prevent people with valid tickets using the services they are entitled to use. Assuming you can get your MP to understand the issue....

Well done for pursuing it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello everyone! I had an unfortunate incident at London Paddington where I was aggressively and erronously refused travel by a member of GWR staff.

I regularly travel between Cambridge and Maidenhead on an off-peak return, which has ticket restriction code 4J. As per the National Rail website, and all ticketing websites (including GWRs website!) this is valid on all afternoon/evening peak trains, with only morning peak restrictions. https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/4j/

In the past 18 months of using this route, I have had no issue. However, last Thursday (17th) my paper ticket did not scan, so I showed it to the member of staff at the gateline at Paddington. She aggressively told me that I would not be allowed on the fast peak train to Maidenhead at 16:50, and pointed to the slower Elizabeth line service departing from the adjacent platform at 16:47. I attempted to calmly clarify that the off-peak evening restrictions did not apply to my ticket, but she rudely shouted at me "I will not look at that website (the National Rail website), you listen to me and read the list of peak trains on the wall, I do not want to talk to you". She then threatened to tell all staff in the vicinity (where there were also British Transport Police walking around) that if I even so attempted to board the peak train she would get me thrown off the train. I ended up getting onto the Elizabeth line as I was running out of time for both trains, and was late to a subsequent appointment.

I have made a complaint to GWR both on X (where they acknowledged I was correct), and via their complaints service, but they have told me that I am wrong again even after attaching the National Rail ticket restrictions page. This is the exact response:

----
Thank you for contacting Great Western Railway regarding your recent experience at Paddington Station on 9th February 2025.

I am sorry to hear about the difficulties you encountered with our gate line staff and the subsequent delay to your journey. Your Off-Peak return ticket between Cambridge and Maidenhead, with restriction code 4J, is indeed valid for travel on any train departing after 09:30 on weekdays. However, Off-Peak tickets are not valid for travel during evening peak hours, typically between 16:00 - 19:00. Therefore, the 16:50 service from Paddington to Maidenhead would fall within this restricted period.

It appears there was a misunderstanding regarding the validity of your ticket during evening peak hours. I apologise for any confusion caused by this situation. Our staff should have provided clearer information to help you understand the applicable restrictions.

To address this matter appropriately, we would like to investigate the incident further and provide feedback to the staff involved. Could you please provide the following information:

• The name or a description of the staff member you interacted with, if available.
• Any additional details or documentation that might assist in our investigation.

?Regarding compensation for the delay and inconvenience caused, please submit a claim through our Delay Repay scheme, providing the necessary journey details and any supporting documents. You can find more information and submit your claim here: https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/delay-repay

Once again, please accept my apologies for the inconvenience and distress this experience has caused you. We are committed to improving our services and ensuring such incidents do not recur.

Thank you for getting in touch. I look forward to your response and assisting you further.
---

How should I reply to this??

Illiterate letter, which tells you that you're wrong and the staff member was right, then asks whether they can investigate the member of staff, and then acknowledges you were delayed and are due Delay Repay. I would first ask that this be escalated within customer relations.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

The reply you have been given by GWR is completely incorrect. The ticket is perfectly valid on the 16:50 from Paddington.

Sadly, this is not the first time we have seen passengers with valid off-peak tickets denied travel from Paddington in the evening peak. Some people will say it's bevause the ticketing system is complicated but it really isn't complicated when it comes to this sort of thing. It's absolute incompetence.

I would contact GWR again and ask for a manager to review their response in accordance with their Complaints Handling Procedure. Should that not obtain a favourable response then I would escalate it to the Rail Ombudsman.

Please do let us know how you get on.

 

[Kite159]

Another member of poorly trained GWR staff whom has silo thinking that all off-peak tickets are barred and will refuse to back down.

Although knowing GWR, they won't admit they are wrong, but on this occasion as a gesture of goodwill offer you a token amount (like a 25% discount code which won't work in conjunction with railcards) and work in the background to get that restriction code changed so it bars use of their trains during that time period.

 

[percypanda]

Thanks everyone for the advice. They have gotten back to me to tell me to direct my complaint to National Rail instead - let's see whether they send me in circles...

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks everyone for the advice. They have gotten back to me to tell me to direct my complaint to National Rail instead - let's see whether they send me in circles...

Can you show us their letter/email? I’d like to see how stupid and wrong it is.

 

[percypanda]

Can you show us their letter/email? I’d like to see how stupid and wrong it is.

Thank you for your response and for providing further details regarding your experience at Paddington Station on 9th February.

We appreciate the clarification you have shared regarding the ticket validity for your Journey. We acknowledge that ticket restrictions can sometimes be complex, and we are sorry for any confusion or inconvenience this situation has caused

With regards to your concerns about how this matter was handled at the station, we recommend that you contact Network Rail, as they are responsible for managing station staff at Paddington, including those at the gate line. You can reach them via the following link: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/contact-us/making-a-complaint/

In addition, if you would like to pursue compensation for any disruption or inconvenience caused, they will be able to assist you with this through their compensation process.

Once again, we regret any frustration this has caused and appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Please let us know if there is anything further we can assist with.

Yours sincerely,


------
After issuing a complaint to Network Rail, I have responded clarifying the staff was dressed in GWR uniform and that I want to make sure my case is seen by a manager as it does seem to be a problem at least partially associated with GWR having seen other threads on these forums...

 

[JN114]

Snip

With regards to your concerns about how this matter was handled at the station, we recommend that you contact Network Rail, as they are responsible for managing station staff at Paddington, including those at the gate line. You can reach them via the following link:

This is incorrect from customer services.

Gateline staff at Paddington are employed by GWR. Your complaint has nothing to do with Network Rail, so I’d unfortunately brace yourself to be the proverbial ping pong ball back towards GWR in their reply.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

This is incorrect from customer services.

Customer Services don't seem to be doing very well. First they display a lack of knowledge of how ticket restrictions work, both in general and in the specific context of an afternoon or evening journey from somewhere distant which crosses London via Paddington. Then they don't even know who employs the customer facing staff at Paddington.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you for your response and for providing further details regarding your experience at Paddington Station on 9th February.

We appreciate the clarification you have shared regarding the ticket validity for your Journey. We acknowledge that ticket restrictions can sometimes be complex, and we are sorry for any confusion or inconvenience this situation has caused

With regards to your concerns about how this matter was handled at the station, we recommend that you contact Network Rail, as they are responsible for managing station staff at Paddington, including those at the gate line. You can reach them via the following link: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/contact-us/making-a-complaint/

In addition, if you would like to pursue compensation for any disruption or inconvenience caused, they will be able to assist you with this through their compensation process.

Once again, we regret any frustration this has caused and appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Please let us know if there is anything further we can assist with.

Yours sincerely,


------
After issuing a complaint to Network Rail, I have responded clarifying the staff was dressed in GWR uniform and that I want to make sure my case is seen by a manager as it does seem to be a problem at least partially associated with GWR having seen other threads on these forums...

Yeah that's even more wrong and stupid than the original.

It is GWR's staff, and Network Rail do not have a "compensation process" anyway. They have managed to get absolutely everything wrong from the outset of the complaint, which is impressive. Rare to see a full house of incompetence. Go back again and see if you get someone else who can make the complaint even funnier!

(Seriously though, insist on escalating this to a manager. Or as @jfollows says you can try emailing the station manager)

 

[Hadders]

Thanks everyone for the advice. They have gotten back to me to tell me to direct my complaint to National Rail instead - let's see whether they send me in circles...

Thank you for your response and for providing further details regarding your experience at Paddington Station on 9th February.

We appreciate the clarification you have shared regarding the ticket validity for your Journey. We acknowledge that ticket restrictions can sometimes be complex, and we are sorry for any confusion or inconvenience this situation has caused

With regards to your concerns about how this matter was handled at the station, we recommend that you contact Network Rail, as they are responsible for managing station staff at Paddington, including those at the gate line. You can reach them via the following link: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/contact-us/making-a-complaint/

In addition, if you would like to pursue compensation for any disruption or inconvenience caused, they will be able to assist you with this through their compensation process.

Once again, we regret any frustration this has caused and appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Please let us know if there is anything further we can assist with.

Yours sincerely,


------
After issuing a complaint to Network Rail, I have responded clarifying the staff was dressed in GWR uniform and that I want to make sure my case is seen by a manager as it does seem to be a problem at least partially associated with GWR having seen other threads on these forums...

This reply from GWR is totally wrong. Network Rail have absolutely nothing to do with ticketing restrictions, they maintain the track!

I suggest you follow what I said in post #5 and ask for it to be reviewed by a manager in accordance with their Complaints Handling Procedure and if thsi doesn't result in a favourable response then I would log a case with the Rail Ombudsman.

 

[percypanda]

Thanks everyone - Network Rail have gotten back pretty quickly to confirm that GWR were wrong to direct me to them, and have forwarded on my complaint again to GWR! I have also asked for it to be reviewed by a manager in accordance with their Complaints Handling Procedure. Hopefully they get back to me soon!

 

[jfollows]

By the way, see https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...off-peak-validity-spectacularly-wrong.110909/

From ten years ago.

 

[reb0118]

Illiterate letter, which tells you that you're wrong and the staff member was right........

No arguments there. Seemingly this passenger is right, then wrong, then right again. "Yer, but no, but yer"......I suspect that this customer service department has a bad case of the Vicky Pollards.

 

[percypanda]

Received a (pretty decent?) apologetic reply from the duty team manager with 50% of the return ticket price back in vouchers. I hope staff are actually trained more adequately in future...

---

Thank you for contacting Great Western Railway.

Please accept my sincerest apologies for the experience you received at the station from one of our staff members when attempting to depart London Paddington at 16:50 and also for the way that your complaint has been handled by the agent working this case. There has been a clear mis-understanding on the agents part about who was responsible for this due to the station being managed by Network Rail.

I can confirm that this should not have been redirected to them and I will pick up this with the advisor and provide the relevant coaching to ensure this does not happen again. This is not the standard of customer service we expect all our staff to provide.

I have logged your comments regarding the encounter with the female staff member and this will be investigated and the relevant training will be provided to ensure they are aware of the correct terms and conditions on the route restrictions.

We do not want our customers to be left feeling threatened and upset due the way they have been treated by a member of staff, you should not have been refused entry onto the service nor should you have had to fight to justify your point of the ticket being valid. If the staff member was unsure she should have checked and I am sorry this didn’t happen.

Due to the delay you encountered by taking the Elizabeth line, in normal circumstances for the delay of this length and the ticket type you held, you would be entitled to £4 as this represents 12.5% of the ticket cost.

Whilst we cannot compensate for a staff complaint, I acknowledge how this has left you feeling, coupled with the way the complaint was handled. I have raised an eVoucher for £16. This is 50% of the ticket cost, I know this will not change what took place but I hope it will restore some faith in us.

Once again, I just want to apologise for what took place at London Paddington and for the way the complaint was handled.

Take care

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I hope staff are actually trained more adequately in future...

There's evidence on the forum that Paddington were denying or attempting to deny travel on restriction free off peak tickets ten years ago. It doesn't help that they make blanket announcements about off peak tickets not being valid.

 

[Kite159]

I hope staff are actually trained more adequately in future...

Most likely, all the training will be is the release of a "Staff brief" which gets stuck to a notice board in the staff room where only some of the staff will bother reading