About immigration advice...

[ainsworth74]

Most student unions would probably have a list of qualified firms and an agreement with at least one of them for a discount/free consultation at the most.

Possibly but I certainly wouldn't bank on it! To be honest a lot of it will probably depend on the student bodies demographics. If there's a very high percentage of overseas students its more likely that they'll have made arrangements compared to a Uni where overseas students are small minority.

No, but they should know who in the local area is authorised and available at a reasonable price.

True true, but that's not what you said

 

[Tetchytyke]

I would be surprised if a Student Union had a qualified immigration adviser, not ruling it out as some Union's may see value in that considering their student population but I'd not expect many to have someone.

Universities generally do have qualified immigration specialists in their advice services, as the law around student visas is very complex. They would usually be able to advise whether a low-level criminal offence would affect a visa, although naturally people may well prefer to speak to someone more independent (the university is the student’s sponsor and so university staff also have a reporting duty to the Home Office in many cases, e.g. where a student has failed to attend their lessons.) They can’t advise if there’s a conflict of interest, e.g. where the university has already told the Home Office a student has failed to attend their lessons.

Most students’ unions will also have access to the UKCISA (an organisation who advise and represent international students) specialist advice line too. Students can also ring UKCISA directly but it can be tough to get through on the student line.

I wouldn’t expect Students’ Union staff to have much more than a print out of local firms though. I always went to great lengths to avoid recommending a specific firm.

Citizens Advice Bureaux generally won’t have anyone specialist, and in many cases will simply signpost, although Citizens Advice staff do have access to specialist advice lines. Again they will usually only be able to give a printout of local firms.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2023 ==

So in practice are just limited to changing our line from 'I can't help you with your immigration question because the law says I can't ' to 'I can't help you because I don't know enough about how your case will be judged '?

Pretty much!

I’d be content to say on here that something probably wouldn’t be an issue (Penalty Fare) or might be an issue (criminal conviction under RORA), but the advice always has to be speak with a specialist if you’re worried.

 

[ainsworth74]

Citizens Advice Bureaux generally won’t have anyone specialist, and in many cases will simply signpost, although Citizens Advice staff do have access to specialist advice lines. Again they will usually only be able to give a printout of local firms.

That was certainly standard procedure at my Bureaux! We had access to some information via AdviserNet (when it was still semi-decent) and occasionally used it to give Level 1 advice but it was rare someone appeared on the door with an issue we felt even vaguely competent to assist with (whether it was Level 1 or not!). Most such individuals left with a printout of local firms who could help.

 

[some bloke]

Could an email be useful asking OISC if they would provide guidance (on lawfulness and what they think is wise)?

 

[Egg Centric]

Whilst I appreciate the technical arguments about the legislation and similar, fundamentally immigration is a complex area of law and one which can have extremely severe consequences if mistakes are made such as deportation from the UK. It is not to be trifled with.

Consequently, unless someone is a qualified immigration advisor (and I don't think we have any on the Forum, if we do by all means shout up), the expectation is that only very general statements (i.e. guidance) would be given by Forum Members. Someone pointing to a page on gov.uk and saying "These are the things that could happen in this situation, see this page on gov.uk, but you'd need to speak to an adviser to know more about your specific situation" would be fine for instance. Equally, simply saying "I don't know, see these pages on gov.uk and here is register for immigration advisers" may be the more appropriate response.

We are, fundamentally, a railway forum and so dealing with ticketing matters is more in our wheelhouse (and we actually do have members with experience of the relevant legal processes who can point out if we're going wrong) and is not regulated in quite the same way as immigration advice is.

Again, appreciate the technical arguments and most likely none of what we do here would actually be captured by the act in question. But I'd really rather not run the risk. So generalities are okay but I'd really rather not see anyone saying: "In your situation, you do/don't need to worry because x applies" and even when speaking in generalities please link it back to some sort of official source (basically, gov.uk).

Fair does, I understand the rationale about being as cautious as much as possible, so long as it's not based on a misunderstanding; also, the bolded bit is good to refer to for pedant-on-pedant consensual activity in the future next time someone does claim otherwise - the forum authorities have spoken re: the law and Egg Centric is (arguably) right! We just need something similar on the fine V penalty debate in the future - for my next trick I shall try to find something that says those other than courts can issue the former*+

On the "am I banned from the United States?" thing - which is the more common question than UK immigration imo - are we ok to "guide" that it's extraordinarily unlikely for most people?

*I do hope it's fairly obvious this is all in the nature of good fun!

+I have absolutely no idea if anyone else can issue fines but it would be tremendously funny if they can

 

[rapmastaj]

So in practice are just limited to changing our line from 'I can't help you with your immigration question because the law says I can't ' to 'I can't help you because I don't know enough about how your case will be judged '?

This sounds sensible to me, along with signposting to organisations that can provide further advice. Be aware that even the tiniest misdemeanours, which would normally not be an issue in relation to immigration status, can potentially cause problems if they aren't declared at some point when they should be declared (my uncle is an immigration adjudicator).

 

[Haywain]

+I have absolutely no idea if anyone else can issue fines but it would be tremendously funny if they can

As secretary of a Sunday football team I used to deal with the fines imposed on players by the county Football Association, and on the club by the league.

 

[Egg Centric]

As secretary of a Sunday football team I used to deal with the fines imposed on players by the county Football Association, and on the club by the league.

You must be confused. Only a court can issue fines. That must be a penalty.

Oh.

Only a referee can issue a penalty. It must be a fine and I must be confused.

HELP!

 

[zwk500]

You must be confused. Only a court can issue fines. That must be a penalty.

Oh.

Only a referee can issue a penalty. It must be a fine and I must be confused.

HELP!

I think you'll find football referees award penalties, not issue them

 

[island]

On the "am I banned from the United States?" thing - which is the more common question than UK immigration imo - are we ok to "guide" that it's extraordinarily unlikely for most people?

My understanding is that it is not required to have a permission/licence/etc. to do this.

 

[ainsworth74]

On the "am I banned from the United States?" thing - which is the more common question than UK immigration imo - are we ok to "guide" that it's extraordinarily unlikely for most people?

That would be a matter for the United States and whilst the UK has an extradition treaty with the US I'm not entirely sure they'll be bothered enough to want to extradite people even if it was a crime (and I'm not sure that it is!).

*I do hope it's fairly obvious this is all in the nature of good fun!

I dunno what you mean this is a deadly serious issue!

 

[Gloster]

As far as I am aware the Immigration and Asylum Act only affects people in this country or, possibly, wishing to come to this country as it is British law. It is highly unlikely to have any effect on people wishing to leave, beyond things like not jumping bail or leaving the country while the process is in course when told not to. However, it is unlikely that anyone on this forum is sufficiently informed and up to date about the regulations applied by other countries to be in position to give advice on how the result of a ticket irregularity could affect travel abroad. We should not give advice on this either: not so much on legal grounds, but because erroneous advice could thoroughly foul things up for the questioner.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2023 ==

I dunno what you mean this is a deadly serious issue!

Indeed. Many years ago an acquaintance had a job offer withdrawn because it was found that a very minor conviction when he was young was likely to bar him from entering the USA. He had mentioned it to his prospective employers and they weren’t worried, but checks revealed that he was likely to be barred from the country, which was required for the job.

 

[Haywain]

You must be confused. Only a court can issue fines. That must be a penalty.

Oh.

Only a referee can issue a penalty. It must be a fine and I must be confused.

HELP!

It's fine to be confused - there's no penalty for that.

Just remember that while every fine will be a penalty, not every penalty will be a fine.