.

[Eyec1]

Help! I received a letter about Notice of Intention to Prosecute from GTR. Long story short, i was travelling with a valid ticket but was caught with an invalid railcard by an undercover inspector onboard. My railcard expired a month before the incident and i had no knowledge it was expired. It was a genuine mistake and i was told i would receive a penalty fare in the post as i was in a rush so unable to wait for one to be produced for me. I had no penalty fare arrive within the 9 weeks and only received an immediate intention of prosectiom letter.

I need to reply back in 14 days of the letter with my side of the story. Please can somebody help me to draft a response to settle outside of court.

This is the first instance and was a genuine oversight. I purchased a valid railcard straight after the incident

 

[Gloster]

Help! I received a letter about Notice of Intention to Prosecute from GTR. Long story short, i was travelling with a valid ticket but was caught with an invalid railcard by an undercover inspector onboard. My railcard expired a month before the incident and i had no knowledge it was expired. It was a genuine mistake and i was told i would receive a penalty fare in the post as i was in a rush so unable to wait for one to be produced for me. I had no penalty fare arrive within the 9 weeks and only received an immediate intention of prosectiom letter.

I need to reply back in 14 days of the letter with my side of the story. Please can somebody help me to draft a response to settle outside of court.

This is the first instance and was a genuine oversight. I purchased a valid railcard straight after the incident

It would help if you would post the letter that you have received, with your name, address, the reference number(s) and any other identifying details obscured, so that the experts can help. What stations were you travelling between and is the only time that you did so (N.b. not the only time you were stopped) since the card ran out?

 

[Eyec1]

The letter i received -

Front page:

Notice of intention to prosecute On X Date 2023 at HH:MM your details were taken by a Revenue Protection Inspector at ….. Station. This letter is to inform you of our intention to take this case to the Magistrates Court and on the reverse it provides you with the opportunity to tell us what happened from your point of view. Information should be both factual and honest. Travel fraud costs the rail industry over £240 million per year and Govia Thameslink Railway has a zero tolerance approach to fare evasion on our network. We always ask that the courts impose the maximum penalty for offenders, which can include the following: A Criminal Record Fine of up to £1000 Prison Sentence Suspended Sentence Community Service Compensation Costs You must reply to this letter within 14 days of the above date including the reference above on any correspondence. We DO NOT accept any appeal over the phone, any correspondence MUST be sent in writing. Please DO NOT send any money with your reply. Yours sincerely Fare Evasion Manager Govia Thameslink Railway

Back page:

Details of Offence: On the above date you were spoken to in regard to the following alleged offence(s): That you on X Date 2023, Did enter a train for the purpose of travelling on the railway, and upon inspection at…., did not produce a valid ticket entitling travel. Response from passenger: Tell us what happened from your point of view. Information should be both factual and honest. If you are disputing that the person named is you please provide additional evidence that can assist with this case.

 

[Haywain]

i was travelling with a valid ticket but was caught with an invalid railcard

Sorry but no valid railcard means your ticket wasn't valid.

Good news is that you're dealing with GTR so should be able to reach a settlement at a fairly reasonable cost that isn't likely to be a lot more than a Penalty Fare would have been.

 

[Eyec1]

I was travelling on the Thameslink line between London Bridge and Bedford. I have been travelling a couple days each week to work.

I honestly has no knowledge my railcard expired. It expired a month before the incident date so possible to have travelled a few times inbetween but again, i honestly did not know my railcard expired.

I recently changed jobs so i wasnt aware and purchased one as soon as possible the the incident

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Feb 2024 ==

This was the only time i was stopped since my railcard expired

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Feb 2024 ==

Great to hear GTR aren't as strict as others. I am considering getting a solicitor but it seems too costly over a £30 railcard, but then again the repercussions are so much more.

I want this settled outside of court and at little cost. What do i include in my reply, my mind goes blank and i dont know where to start.

This caused me alot of anxiety and worry on the day when i was stopped.

Please, any help would be much appreciated

 

[Eyec1]

How much could the settlement reach? Is it worth paying £800 for a solicitor to step in? I dont want to incriminate myself so is it best i get them involved now whilst its still early?

 

[swt_passenger]

Help! I received a letter about Notice of Intention to Prosecute from GTR. Long story short, i was travelling with a valid ticket but was caught with an invalid railcard by an undercover inspector onboard. My railcard expired a month before the incident and i had no knowledge it was expired. It was a genuine mistake and i was told i would receive a penalty fare in the post as i was in a rush so unable to wait for one to be produced for me. I had no penalty fare arrive within the 9 weeks and only received an immediate intention of prosectiom letter.

There is no procedure to issue a penalty fare by post after the event. Your being in a rush meant you lost the opportunity to pay a penalty fare.

 

[Camsus]

You purchased a railcard discounted ticket that was invalid due to you not ensuring the railcard was valid. You were then in such a rush that you couldn't wait for a few minutes for a penalty fare to be issued. Now you're accusing the rail staff member who spoke with you of lying.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but I think you need to accept responsibility for a situation that arose solely due to your actions, rather than moaning about someone doing the job they're paid to do. It sounds like they had no other option, given a penalty fare can only be issued face to face.

 

[Eyec1]

Yes i understand, however i genuinely believed my railcard was valid. This is the first time this has ever happened and i was not aware of the process.

I asked if there is a requirement for me to accept the notice and the inspector said no, i will receive this in the post if i do not. I said fine.

Not accusing the rail staff member of lying, just trying to gather the facts. User swt_passenger above said these are not sent by post so trying to understand why i was told i would.

I am very respectful to inspectors and answered all questions promptly and provided my personal details to the fullest when asked to do so.

Again, i think you have misinterpreted my reply. I am not moaning. I am simply trying to question why i may have been told incorrect information.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Feb 2024 ==

Anyone able to help me with a valid reponse please? I want this closed as it is causing me anxiety and worry.

I cannot afford to go to court and have my career/job affected

 

[John R]

You purchased a railcard discounted ticket that was invalid due to you not ensuring the railcard was valid. You were then in such a rush that you couldn't wait for a few minutes for a penalty fare to be issued. Now you're accusing the rail staff member who spoke with you of lying.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but I think you need to accept responsibility for a situation that arose solely due to your actions, rather than moaning about someone doing the job they're paid to do. It sounds like they had no other option, given a penalty fare can only be issued face to face.

I think this is a fair summary.

To achieve a settlement offer now will need engaging with the process in a more cooperative and contrite manner than appears to have been the case during the initial encounter.

 

[Eyec1]

is this reply sufficent

My proposed reply letter is -

I would like to sincerely apologize for the oversight in not possessing a valid railcard during the incident in question. I acknowledge the gravity of the situation and the importance of adhering to railway regulations. Immediately upon realizing my error, I purchased a railcard to ensure compliance with the required fare conditions for future travels.

I am committed to resolving this issue amicably and would like to explore the possibility of settling outside of court.

In an effort to rectify the situation promptly, I would appreciate any guidance or steps that can be taken to reach a resolution. Additionally, I am open to any fines or penalties deemed appropriate for my lapse in compliance.

I hope we can find a mutually agreeable solution to this matter and avoid the legal proceedings. Your understanding and assistance in this regard are greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

[Llanigraham]

is this reply sufficent

My proposed reply letter is -

I would like to sincerely apologize for the oversight in not possessing a valid railcard during the incident in question. I acknowledge the gravity of the situation and the importance of adhering to railway regulations. Immediately upon realizing my error, I purchased a railcard to ensure compliance with the required fare conditions for future travels.

I am committed to resolving this issue amicably and would like to explore the possibility of settling outside of court.

In an effort to rectify the situation promptly, I would appreciate any guidance or steps that can be taken to reach a resolution. Additionally, I am open to any fines or penalties deemed appropriate for my lapse in compliance.

I hope we can find a mutually agreeable solution to this matter and avoid the legal proceedings. Your understanding and assistance in this regard are greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

That reads like it has been produced by AI.
I suggest rewriting it in normal English.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

As other forum members have said you did not have a valid ticket to travel. This is a criminal offence and GTR are within their rights to prosecute you in the Magistrates COurt should they wish to do so. It sounds as though the inspector was going to give you a Penalty Fare but you decided you didn't have time to wait for this to be issued - this was a big mistake because Penalty Fares cannot be issued by post and your case has now been reported for further investigation.

The good news is that GTR are one of the easier train companies to deal with when it comes to this sort of thing. My view is that you don't need to use a solicitor but you do need to write a better letter than the one you've written above.

I suggest a short, concise letter mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

It's also worth mentioning that since the incident you've purchased a new railcard.

An arrgavating factor is that you've travelled with invalid tickets several times. GTR have only asked you about the incident ont he day where you were stopped so I would only refer to that incident in your reply because you are not required to incriminate yourself, but do be aware that they might decide to research your online ticket purchasing account and could come back to you at a later date with further questions about other dates.

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to have another go an writing your reply, if you post it in this thread forum members will proof read it for you.

 

[Eyec1]

Welcome to the forum!

As other forum members have said you did not have a valid ticket to travel. This is a criminal offence and GTR are within their rights to prosecute you in the Magistrates COurt should they wish to do so. It sounds as though the inspector was going to give you a Penalty Fare but you decided you didn't have time to wait for this to be issued - this was a big mistake because Penalty Fares cannot be issued by post and your case has now been reported for further investigation.

The good news is that GTR are one of the easier train companies to deal with when it comes to this sort of thing. My view is that you don't need to use a solicitor but you do need to write a better letter than the one you've written above.

I suggest a short, concise letter mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

It's also worth mentioning that since the incident you've purchased a new railcard.

An arrgavating factor is that you've travelled with invalid tickets several times. GTR have only asked you about the incident ont he day where you were stopped so I would only refer to that incident in your reply because you are not required to incriminate yourself, but do be aware that they might decide to research your online ticket purchasing account and could come back to you at a later date with further questions about other dates.

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to have another go an writing your reply, if you post it in this thread forum members will proof read it for you.

Hi Hadders, thank you for your reply. This has been incredibly helpful to me.

Would you mind reading through my revised response below? I am hoping this is a better reply than the above but welcome your suggestions and feedback.

Revised letter -

Firstly, I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused and understand the importance of complying with ticket regulations. I acknowledge the error and assure you that I have learned from this incident.

I am keen to resolve this matter amicably and without resorting to court action. To demonstrate my commitment, I offer to promptly settle the outstanding fare and cover the train company's administrative costs incurred in dealing with this issue.

Furthermore, I would like to inform you that since the incident, I have purchased a new railcard, ensuring such oversights do not occur in the future

 

[John R]

I think you need to ask explicitly for an out of court settlement. Obviously everyone in your situation is keen to avoid court, so words along the lines of “I would be very grateful if it would be possible to …” are better.

In the first paragraph I would state what the error was - it feels a little bit too general now, and in the last paragraph there’s no reference to anything you have done to stop the same thing happening in a year’s time, despite saying that it won’t reoccur.

 

[Eyec1]

thanks Brissie Girl. I tweaked based on your feedback. How likely are GTR to accept this reply? Will this be enough to represent myself or should i seek solicitor help?

Revised letter -

Firstly, I deeply and sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by this situation. I understand the importance of complying with ticket regulations and I acknowledge my mistake in not possessing a valid railcard. I would like to assure you that this was not in any way intentional, and I have truly learned from this incident. I am genuinely sorry for the oversight on my part.

I am keen to resolve this matter amicably and I would be very grateful if it would be possible to settle this matter without court action. To demonstrate my commitment, I offer to promptly settle the outstanding fare and cover the train company's administrative costs incurred in dealing with this issue.

Furthermore, I would like to inform you that since the incident, I have purchased a new railcard and have set up a reminder to renew it when it is close to expiry, ensuring such oversights do not occur in the future.

 

[John R]

Yes, that sounds much better.

 

[Hadders]

This is much better. I would say 'I wondered if it would be possible to resolve the matter without court action. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare and your administrative costs in dealing with this matter'

 

[Eyec1]

Thank you Brissle Girl and Hadders - i'll add that in.

Can i get some guidance on how i actually respond with this - the letter says reply in 14 days in writing and at the back there is a blank section , is this where i am suppose to write with pen? Or do i type up a fresh new letter with my response and send it off?

 

[Hadders]

There's no need to reply on the actual form. Type the letter on a separate sheet of paper and attach it to the form, but do make sure you put the case reference number on the form along with your name and address incase they get separated. Make sure you sign the letter.

 

[Eyec1]

Thank you! Will a simple letter stamp do the trick or is it advised to post using tracked or signed delivery?

I would prefer they email me with any responses rather than post, could i ask them to do this in my reply?

 

[Hadders]

I would send it 'Signed for'. That way you've got proof of postage and you can confirm the letter's arrived at the destination. No need to use 'Special Delivery' which is what the Post Office will try and sell you as it costs a fortune.

There's nothing to stop you from outting your email address on the letter and asking if they can email you but there's no guarantee they'd do it. There's also a risk if emails end up going into spam etc. Personally I'd stick with a physical letter, unless you're going to be moving/going away in which case tell them this in your reply.

 

[Eyec1]

Thank you Brissle Girl and Hadders - i'll add that in.

Can i get some guidance on how i actually respond with this - the letter says reply in 14 days in writing and at the back there is a blank section , is this where i am suppose to write with pen? Or do i type up a fresh new letter with my response and send it off?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Feb 2024 ==

I work in Banking with deals with a great level of trust, is it worth mentioning this to support my case?

.

 

[John R]

Thanks again. Worth mentioning my Banking job?

No, I wouldn’t.

 

[Hadders]

Worth mentioning my Banking job?

No, absolutely not. It could be argued that someone in a responsible job should know that travelling with an invalid ticket is an offence and should face a harsher penalty.

In this sort of situation you should never volunteer more information than you are required to do so.

 

[Eyec1]

Thanks im gonna try my luck and send my reply letter. I am REALLY hoping they agree to settle out of court.

Will update you when i hear back.

How soon can i expect to hear back via post?

 

[Hadders]

It depends on their workload, they deal with thousands of cases at a time.

I’d have thought you’ll receive something within a month.

 

[Eyec1]

Just wondering would it be an issue if i post without the original letter and instead send my reply letter (which includes my details and case reference number)?

I was in a rush and completely overlooked including the original letter

 

[Hadders]

As long as the letter has got your details on it and the case reference number then it won't be a problem.