222 contract for Scotrail: could Scotrail have procured new trains instead?

[Rail Quest]

I don't see why. If stock was designed from the outset so that the power train coud accept the 3 varied inputs why would a refurb be needed? Just take units out in turn to swap the diesel bits for pans as electrification proceeds and by the end of the process each electrified line would have 100% electric stock. No need for any refurb at all.

I was more thinking that they'd be ordering diesel/electric bi-mode units now and converting them to battery bi-mode as more electrification coverage comes in. If so, the battery units to replace the diesel engines is where I was thinking the expense would come from. I don't know of any plans for Scotland to electrify the entire Inter7City network by the time new trains are ordered to either diesel or battery power will be needed.

it already is...

Are there any battery-powered services in the world currently that currently regularly run the sort of distance between Edinburgh and Inverness? If not, then the use of battery powered technology is unproven in the real world on the types of services these trains would need to run.

as long as the refurb reallly does get them back into "full" working order after the current woeful performance/condition...

Agreed. I hope that is the case and that the current performance is fixable and merely a reflection of how they're being treated on approach to their replacement by 810s.

 

[AndrewE]

I was more thinking that they'd be ordering diesel/electric bi-mode units now and converting them to battery bi-mode as more electrification coverage comes in. If so, the battery units to replace the diesel engines is where I was thinking the expense would come from.

If you want a BEMU then you're going to have to buy a battery... The diesel power units might well have a resale value (if they have been looked after(!)) or they could go back into a pool for fitting to units/fleets built for other operators on the same trajectory.

Are there any battery-powered services in the world currently that currently regularly run the sort of distance between Edinburgh and Inverness? If not, then the use of battery powered technology is unproven in the real world on the types of services these trains would need to run.

How about locos working a 385 mile private, heavy-haul rail network? https://electrek.co/2025/12/15/fort...tric-locomotive-never-needs-fuel-or-charging/ How does 14.5 MWh compare with the energy in or the range given by a diesel fuel tank?

(I can't see anything on how that trial is going though, but some big mines have huge electric dump trucks which never need charging - if the processing plant is at a lower level than the mine. p.s. see https://www.emobility-engineering.com/electric-truck-mines-own-energy/)

 

[Elecman]

Am I missing something? Reading through that thread this was a test that didn't work and the unit was converted back to diesel?

You also didn't answer my point about the cost involved in doing that and what the timeline would be for procurement of these new trains. As I said, the removal of the HST is urgent for Scotrail.

No it was a trial proof of concept, it worked to the parameters of the trial. The train was converted back to diesel engine so as to be compliant with the rest of the fleet