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2022 UK Local Elections

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brad465

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So about 7000 seats contested, and Labour are +108. And note that most of those - 66 - were in Wales. They end up having a net gain of just 22 councillors in the whole of England.

Compare to 1995, ie. two years out from the next general election, where there were about 10,000 seats contested, and Labour were +1,807.

(equivalent numbers for the Tories in 2022 -487, in 1995 -2,018).

This isn't remotely a performance that's going to win Labour the next general election. Not even largest party.
They have more than double the number of seats of their nearest challenger, and were going into this election with the most seats to defend. You can't gain a seat you already hold, in the same way you can't lose a seat you don't hold. I'm sure there are areas of the country where Labour could have and should have done better, but in summary there wasn't much more that could be done. Also the number of seats up for election in each year of local elections is not the same each year (except comparing the same set every time they're up for election), so comparing 2022 and 1995 is like comparing apples and pears.

That said General elections and local elections are very different, so yes Labour shouldn't think a general election for them right now will work out well, but things certainly not looking up for the Tories either, who lost nearly 500 seats despite having more to potentially gain net-wise than Labour.
 
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MikeWM

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I think maybe you're expecting too much. One has to remember that in the liberal mid-90s, the Tories were seen by many as dated, anachronistic and irrelevant to modern society, whereas in the conservative 2010s and 2020s, this is sadly no longer the case.

I'm not sure that is really the case - it may just be an artifact of us both getting older and who we associate with :)

In my case - though I'm not saying I'm typical - my politics seem to have changed quite radically over the past few years. Or rather, politics appears to have changed radically around me. I've always thought of myself as economically left-wing and socially libertarian; that's why I rather liked Corbyn, because his records showed that he was similar. But I don't see anyone that is economically left-wing and socially libertarian available right now - and perhaps the one change in my own views in the last few years is that I may now put more importance on social libertarianism over economic left-wing-ism than before. That is a direct product of having been (quite ludicrously) legally confined to my home, repeatedly, for months on end, which all the major parties supported, and no doubt would again in similar circumstances.


Sadly as a naive twenty-something in the mid-90s I thought the Tories would be out for a generation unless they modernised, and didn't anticipate the clock swinging back towards conservatism as it did after 2010.

But they did modernise, at least to some degree, under Cameron (as a clone of Blair). And Labour at the time, among many other issues, were descending into repeated and concerted attacks on civil liberties. (It may be worth pointing out that one such, that everyone missed at the time because it was a lot less obvious than others, were the changes to the 1984 Public Health Act that allowed all the Covid regulations). I openly detested this Government by 2010 and, while certainly no fan of Cameron, was delighted in the change of government then. Remember the very first bill the Cameron government put forward was to get rid of ID cards, which I had strongly opposed and was very pleased indeed to see the back of. (I voted Green at the 2010 election, for what it is worth).


Strangely, economic hard times (such as those seen in 1979 and 2009) seem to encourage people to vote for right-wing parties, which is the opposite of what one might expect.

Or indeed 1992, where John Major won despite the odds and a poor economy. By contrast the economy was doing pretty well in 1997 and the electorate quite emphatically removed him. (Though even then, the Conservatives got over 30% of the vote). So yes, those hoping that the terrible disasters we're going to see in the economy over the next year ot two are going to lose the Tories the next election should remember it doesn't always work that way.


I think any gain, even a small one, for Labour looks ok to at least get them in as the largest party in a hung parliament. Remember also that many of the councils involved in these recent elections were solid Labour anyway.

You'd need Labour to gain 80 seats and the Tories to lose 80 to get to that point. When you consider that there is (almost) always somewhat of a swing back to the ruling party as a general election nears, on these results Labour are currently a very long way away indeed. Also, fairly or otherwise, you've got the boundary changes to take into account, which appear to favour the Tories.


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They have more than double the number of seats of their nearest challenger, and were going into this election with the most seats to defend. You can't gain a seat you already hold, in the same way you can't lose a seat you don't hold. I'm sure there are areas of the country where Labour could have and should have done better, but in summary there wasn't much more that could be done.

Based on the data here

http://www.electionscentre.co.uk/wp...07/Local-Elections-Handbook-1995-complete.pdf

Labour won close to triple the number of seats of the Tories then (6239 vs 2136, I think, if I can use Excel).

They got 47% of the vote versus 25% for the Tories. (In 2022, 35% vs 30%).

That's really not a very good performance given there are all sorts of reasons that the Government should be as unpopular, if not considerably more so, than Major's government in 1995.

Also the number of seats up for election in each year of local elections is not the same each year (except comparing the same set every time they're up for election), so comparing 2022 and 1995 is like comparing apples and pears.

Of course true, but nevertheless there are clear markers when you're heading for a change of government, and we're not getting them here. Look at the 2008 elections - Tories 44%, Labour 24%. That's the kind of lead you need in order to win at a general election a couple of years from now (and even then the Tories didn't manage a majority).
 
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Typhoon

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Almost nobody in Great Britain votes for the Tories because of their stance on Northern Ireland.
True, but it gives Johnson and many members of the cabinet the opportunity to wrap themselves in the flag. They need to re-enthuse their core support, detract them from rising prices in the shops, mortgages or rents, taxes, energy costs. It is not that difficult to go from Sinn Fein to the IRA to dissident republican groups to terrorism; add that to Putin and Russia (with hints that Labour would be soft on Russia and Sinn Fein). 'Now is not the time to risk the nation's security on untried left-leaning politicians who may put the nation's security at risk.' Chuck in Comrade Corbyn (no longer a Labour MP, but who cares about facts). It may not work but it might be worth them trying.

Also the number of seats up for election in each year of local elections is not the same each year (except comparing the same set every time they're up for election), so comparing 2022 and 1995 is like comparing apples and pears.
1995 was soon after Major had called out 'The B@$t@rds', the Conservative party was divided, it may be now but the division is not so open as MPs fail to get their letters sent to the 1922.
 

AlterEgo

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True, but it gives Johnson and many members of the cabinet the opportunity to wrap themselves in the flag. They need to re-enthuse their core support, detract them from rising prices in the shops, mortgages or rents, taxes, energy costs. It is not that difficult to go from Sinn Fein to the IRA to dissident republican groups to terrorism
The Tories have literally never used this tactic post-GFA even when Sinn Fein were much more closely associated with violence.

Dissident republic groups *hate* Sinn Fein and the old Provisionals. Saying “we dislike the New IRA and want rid of them”…is…agreeing with Sinn Fein!

Besides not many people, even Tory voters, give a hoot about Ireland. Many Tory voters are entirely ambivalent about unification.

It is a non issue in Great Britain. Nobody cares about Northern Ireland, they never have.
 
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brad465

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The Tories have literally never used this tactic post-GFA even when Sinn Fein were much more closely associated with violence.

Dissident republic groups *hate* Sinn Fein and the old Provisionals. Saying “we dislike the New IRA and want rid of them”…is…agreeing with Sinn Fein!

Besides not many people, even story voters, give a hoot about Ireland. Many Tory voters are entirely ambivalent about unification.

It is a non issue in Great Britain. Nobody cares about Northern Ireland, they never have.
Sounds like Peter Hitchen's didn't get the memo:


 

AlterEgo

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Sounds like Peter Hitchen's didn't get the memo:

Where in the article does it talk about the New IRA? That article is about the Provisionals. They hate each other. You do know there are multiple other militant republican groups, don't you, as well as the Provisional IRA (PIRA) Council Hitchens alludes to which is tied in with Sinn Fein?

Hitchens assumes you know he is dealing with the shady PIRA Council cabal of men which does not use violence (though they have been accused of a lot of organised crime) and appoints successor leaders and allegedly controls both O'Neill and McDonald. My post was dealing with the wrongheaded idea that it would be a Tory vote winner to somehow...link Sinn Fein...with...current paramilitarism in Northern Ireland...even though the current violent lot are the New IRA, who have nothing to do with Sinn Fein and hate them more than they hate the British!

Sinn Fein's military wing is/was the Provisional IRA, who are on permanent ceasefire and have to all intents and purposes almost completely disbanded.

Sinn Fein policy towards the New IRA (that is, "dissidents", the rump of violent republicans which reject the Good Friday Agreement and insist on physical force, UNLIKE Sinn Fein who are signatories to said Agreement and who are in the Executive...when it sits) is to see them sidelined and destroyed, which is essentially the same objective as the Conservative party and the British intelligence services. Sinn Fein are in government and see other, non-Sinn Fein republicans who espouse violent tactics as a threat to their political and spiritual legitimacy.

This is a very elementary level of knowledge which is required to comment on anything to do with present-day paramilitarism in Northern Ireland.

I'll tap the sign:

It is a non issue in Great Britain. Nobody cares about Northern Ireland, they never have.

It is incredible how little the average Englishman knows about Northern Ireland.
 
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