1960s Alternative Scenario

[Matt P]

This is very much a What If within a What If type scenario.

If the ex-Cambrian and GWR secondary lines in Shropshire and North Wales hadn't been transferred from WR to LMR and lines like Whitchurch to Welshpool and Ruabon to Barmouth hadn't closed (although this would probably rely on an alternative reality to Beeching). What kind of diesel traction would the WR have introduced?

DMUs are a given and indeed were introduced on surviving routes like the Cambrian Coast line by the LMR. However what would WR have used for freight and also for a handful of loco hauled passenger services, including the Cambrian Coast Express as well as other longer distance trains that ran on the now closed routes, such as Manchester to Aberystwyth via Whitchurch, Oswestry and Welshpool, Birkenhead/Chester to Pwllheli via the Ruabon to Barmouth and Paddington to Pwllheli via the Ruabon to Barmouth.

Class 24s and 25s ended up on the Cambrian under the LMR. Would the WR have ordered batches of these or gone with additional builds of Class 22s for these secondary/rural routes in Shropshire and Wales?

 

[Bevan Price]

This is very much a What If within a What If type scenario.

If the ex-Cambrian and GWR secondary lines in Shropshire and North Wales hadn't been transferred from WR to LMR and lines like Whitchurch to Welshpool and Ruabon to Barmouth hadn't closed (although this would probably rely on an alternative reality to Beeching). What kind of diesel traction would the WR have introduced?

DMUs are a given and indeed were introduced on surviving routes like the Cambrian Coast line by the LMR. However what would WR have used for freight and also for a handful of loco hauled passenger services, including the Cambrian Coast Express as well as other longer distance trains that ran on the now closed routes, such as Manchester to Aberystwyth via Whitchurch, Oswestry and Welshpool, Birkenhead/Chester to Pwllheli via the Ruabon to Barmouth and Paddington to Pwllheli via the Ruabon to Barmouth.

Class 24s and 25s ended up on the Cambrian under the LMR. Would the WR have ordered batches of these or gone with additional builds of Class 22s for these secondary/rural routes in Shropshire and Wales?

1964 was the last full year for steam on the Cambrian lines, and the last steam there - on the Cambrian Coast Express, was in March 1967. By that time, WR had an allocation of Class 31, so I think that is the most likely option.

The thoughts of a pair of 22s staggering up Taleddig bank on the summer saturday 12 coach load makes me shudder - 15-20 mph if you were very very lucky. ???

 

[Magdalia]

If the ex-Cambrian and GWR secondary lines in Shropshire and North Wales hadn't been transferred from WR to LMR

This happened in 1963.

or gone with additional builds of Class 22s

By which time NBL was in liquidation, and BR had stopped ordering any hydraulics.

1964 was the last full year for steam on the Cambrian lines, and the last steam there - on the Cambrian Coast Express, was in March 1967. By that time, WR had an allocation of Class 31, so I think that is the most likely option.

The WR first got Brush Type 2s in 1968.

The likely answer, given what happened west of Swansea, is EE Type 3s.

 

[Western 52]

This happened in 1963.


By which time NBL was in liquidation, and BR had stopped ordering any hydraulics.


The WR first got Brush Type 2s in 1968.

The likely answer, given what happened west of Swansea, is EE Type 3s.

Yes, 37s quite likely, or maybe some spare Hymeks for a while. They did use them on the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth service after all.

 

[Grumpy]

The thoughts of a pair of 22s staggering up Taleddig bank on the summer saturday 12 coach load makes me shudder - 15-20 mph if you were very very lucky. ???

Dont forget the class 14 banker.