19:15 from Paddington

[s3an]

A slightly long tale, but highlighting some rail staff problems.

I had the unfortunate experience of chatching the 19:15 from Paddington to Swansea last night. Not ever my favorite train because it will be standing room only unless you get there early. I got there at 19:10 and instead of going for a drink and waiting an hour decided to catch it, which of course was a bad move.

The train was packed with very few standing places in standard. Reasonable amount of space in 1st, but I obeyed the rules thinking that a 1st carriage might get declassified, especially if the guard had seen the dispatcher team pushing people and suitcases on with the doors. Suitcases which then blocked the doors.

the guard made no announcements about lateness, even though the train was late by Reading and made no announcement for passengers changing at Newport for the Hereford and beyond train.

10 minutes late at Newport and the connection hasn't been held. I know it will be an hours wait, so start to head for the exit to go to a pub. I overhear an 'helpful' ATW employee telling passengers for Abergavenny the next train is in an hour, FGW haven't authorised taxis and they won't be able to claim compensation. This last part especially piques my interest as I am pretty sure it will be a compensation claim situation, even though I haven't had any reason to do a claim in the past few weeks and it was over a year since I'd done regular travelling to London. Maybe things have changed so I pick up a claim/complaint leaflet, check the timetable to confirm the arrival using the next train, at Hereford and also Abergavenny will be over an hour later. Then I go looking for station staff. I can't see the guy who spoke to the other passengers, but find someone. he confirms what the other guy has said and I ask him why the connection wasn't held (this was a particular bugbear of mine in the past and I will do a complete post on it later). he tells me ATW never hold trains because of needing to meet connections further up the line. I ask about providing some evidence I was on the 19:15 because of course the guard never checked tickets and I've had problems with claims previously when the ticket hasn't been stamped.

Id rather have a beer than pursue this, so off I go.

An hour later I'm back and notice the 20:15 from Paddington is running late. There will be some unhappy people because I know from an hour earlier that ATW don't ever hold trains.
The 20:15 is 12 minutes late and the train up to Hereford that I'm sitting on is held. An ATW employee does jump on the train and tell us too.

Any FGW, especially guards/train managers and ATW staff like to comment?

regards

sean

 

[BestWestern]

The 'holding' of connecting trains for late incoming services, particularly when different TOCs are involved, can be a lottery. I've had Southern refuse to hold a connecting evening service for what would literally have been two or three minutes, and then stepped from my train to see it pulling out of the adjacent platform. It can be infuriating, but there are legitimate reasons for it. A delay of a few minutes at one location could well end up being half an hour by the end of the run, not to mention any other knock-on effects to other trains. To reach agreement for a train to be held requires not only the connecting operator to authorise their service to be hold but also for the late-running TOC to be willing to foot the bill for delays.

Clearly ATW don't appear to have the previously quoted policy of not holding services, as your later train was indeed held. The reasons for holding one service but not another could be wide ranging, anything from the request simply not having been made, to some complex issues with pathing or somesuch further up the line.

I'm frequently asked by people on services running maybe five or ten minutes late, whether their connecting trains might be held. Unless it's exceptional, for example late in the evening, I will always advise that it is highly unlikely, and I generally won't make the call as I know what the answer will be. I'm curious as to why you felt this was a 'rail staff' problem though?

 

[burneside]

About a year ago I was on a late running Paddington-Exeter train, it arrived Exeter 10 minutes late thus missing the local Paignton service which had been allowed to leave on time, as the local service was the last of the day FGW had to pay for taxis for a large number of people. When I queried with FGW why they had not held the local train one of the reasons they gave was the knock on effect to other services, which was nonsense given it was the last one of the day. FGW shot themselves in the foot, as not only did they have to pay for taxis, I also claimed a refund for being delayed over an hour (which I hope other people did too).

 

[s3an]

Staff problems:

1 FGW guard not notifying passengers that the train was running late and why. he also could have told people that some connections could/would be missed. I don't know what announcements guards are supposed to make but I have travelled on FGW on that route for enough years to know most guards will announce delays and the reason, if they know it, plus also apologise for the late running. People can at least contact friends, relatives etc to tell them they will be delayed. Someone could perhaps tell me what announcements should be made.

2 Station staff at Paddington and again at Reading who could see exit doors blocked with suitcases. People were climbing over the suitcases to get out at Reading in full view of a dispatcher and him then pushing the door shut to force someone in. Perhaps that is not considered to be unsafe and someone will be able to confirm that behaviour is taught in training, as good practice.

3 ATW staff member telling me the NEVER hold trains, when it is clearly a lie. He could have just said he didn't know.

4 ATW staff member telling other passengers they wouldn't be able to claim compensation. Nothing to do with him or ATW and also untrue.

5 My ticket hasn't been stamped by FGW guard and ATW staff wouldn't give me proof that I just arrived on the 19:15 from Paddington. I have had problems with unstamped ticket compensation claims in the past. I did try to see where the guard was at Newport and go along the platform but the train was off before I could get to him. I'm not sure where the fault lies here and I might have a further complaint if I get refused compensation.
Of course I have an unstamped ticket and it hasn't been through the barrier machine either so I could reuse it as compensation, but i'll still be down a few pounds when I get a single to London. Also, I don't want to comit fraud and I want my compensation for a delay logged down.

It could be my expectations are not consistent with how some rail companies train staff and how I have seen them behave is top quality. I'm sure someone can confirm this.


I have found most on train staff with FGW and ATW to be great and usually very helpful. I do actually understand why the connection wasn't held because a FGW guard took several minutes to explain it properly to me and one of the few good staff at Newport explained why some staff in control will delay a train by a couple of minutes, while others like to have the FGW arrive as the ATW leaves.

I am happy to but in when a guard is being spoken to badly by other passengers because: it isn't his fault they have the wrong ticket (usually an advance); it probably isn't his fault the train is late; it also isn't any of the various staff's fault when passengers don't get a seat; and people jst shouldn't behave rudely to people doing their job.

I have found all but a couple of ATW staff at Newport to be rude, unhelpful and for some reason not to want to give a truthful explanation of delays or other things. On occasion they have even tried to refuse to sell me the ticket I want, that I am entitled to buy. I have also found some FGW staff at Paddington to be unhelpful and to tell me things that are untrue, although it could be that they have been trained to say things that I have found to be untrue since reading posts on this forum.

I have always been polite and nonagressive to the staff (except one) even though some haven't acted in the same way to me.


regards

sean

 

[richw]

I have also found some FGW staff at Paddington to be unhelpful and to tell me things that are untrue, although it could be that they have been trained to say things that I have found to be untrue since reading posts on this forum.

At Paddington I highly recommend hunting down Ollie who works for FGW, He is probably one of the most knowledgable helpful railway employees i've come across. I believe he can be accessed on twitter @FGWollie
He is always happy to assist with questions on twitter as well which he does in an unofficial capacity.

 

[es373]

Announcements dont have to be mate at 10 minute delays.

Pushing boarding people with suitcases on to the train?

I think this is an extremely exaggerated thread just to bad mouth rail staff. Again.....

 

[HSTfan!!!]

ATW staff cannot hold trains without prior authorisation from ATW control, I imagine this to be the same of all TOC's. Now if your FGW Train Manager is switched on enough to contact his control, who in turn can contact ATW control there is far more likelihood of that connection being held than if for example a member of ATW station staff phones control and asks for that hold.
If my memory serves correctly, the 2110 departure from NWP, connects or at least used to connect with the sleeper at Crewe hence ATW Control often refuse to hold this service as for quite obviously not wanting to pay for a taxi all the way up to Aberdeen.
As far as FGW is concerned they will not give you a taxi if there is another service within an hour - which I'd say isn't as bad as XC's policy of not providing a taxi if there is another service within 2 hours and as the next service heading towards HFD etc arrives at NWP at 2208 you've got no chance and from personal experience FGW take so long to organise taxi's that you may as well wait the hour anyway!!! That service is the last service forward to Crewe so it's in FGW's best interests to secure a hold with ATW on that service - doesn't always happen I can tell you that much.

3 ATW staff member telling me the NEVER hold trains, when it is clearly a lie. He could have just said he didn't know.

To be honest, this is true, ATW station staff don't hold trains, it's only on control's say so. Think about it logically, if every train was held every train up for 10minutes the whole network would be running late, Network Rail charge by the minute for delaying a train and those charges are astronomical! By the time you've delayed a train for 10minutes, the service may not even be profitable!

Another point to note is passengers are quick to jump on you and complain when a train isn't held for them but they're often rarely say thank you when you do!
I know this doesn't really help you being an hour late home but I hope this helps you understand the procedures.

 

[s3an]

Announcements dont have to be mate at 10 minute delays.

Ok, fair enough, it isn't required, but most of the guards on that route let the passengers know what's going on, sometimes counting up how many have connections and 'phoning up to find out if trains will be held. I've even seen guards lend mobiles to passengers to call relatives.

In 9 years i've only ever come across 1 bad guard on the FGW trains I've caught, but I always have the right ticket for the train and I've never had to buy a ticket on the train.

Pushing boarding people with suitcases on to the train?

Yes it happened. the guy was trying to get on with 2 suitcases, the end of carriage area was full and we were saying there's no room. he was moaning that he had a reservation, feet on the step and suitcase on the step, other suitcase just behind him. I suppose the dispatcher needs to get the last door closed or he will be blamed, so pushes second suitcase into the passengers and forces the door shut, 'helping' passenger and suitcases onto train with door. If I saw it in a film I'd laugh.
Maybe I should have tried to push the passenger and suitcase out?

Come and join the 19:15 to see what it is like, I'd suggest Friday December 2nd and wait until 19:14 to get on. Book yourself through to Abergavenny or Hereford. I'd already bet on it running late and missing the connection at Newport. I won't be on it as I already know it's a definite one to avoid

I think this is an extremely exaggerated thread just to bad mouth rail staff. Again.....

Only to bad mouth some bad rail staff. If there was a sticky good staff thread I'd be happy to post in that.

I do understand that people can sometimes have bad things happening at home and the blame culture of private companies can be really bad, add in poor pay and conditions and some people are not happy at work. Been there, done that, but I always did my job properly.

 

[Flamingo]

A few points here, firstly, the 1915 especially on a Friday is a nightmare. Various things have been done about it, like removing all Advance ticket's from it, and removing Didcot as a stop, but they have made minimal differences. Apparently putting a 1945 on is now being looked at as well, but that is not something that can happen overnight.

Anybody who asks me about it, I recommend upgrading from a Super-off-peak to an off-peak and catching the 1845, which in my experience is rammed to Reading, then approx 50% of the passengers get off, and there are a few hundred empty seats the rest of the journey.

Regarding announcements, what carriage were you in? There may have been an issue with the PA, they are not the most reliable, both the handsets, and the individual carriage speakers. I had that a few weeks ago myself, I was delayed and making announcements from coach A every few minutes, when I got a phone-call from the CH in 1st "What's going on, there's been no announcements". PA was not coming out in G & H.

The lateness was probably caused by passenger loadings, with delays getting people on-off the train, that can add a few minutes per stop, by the time it reaches Newport that would all add up.

In that situation, the connecting train would not be held at Newport. I wouldn't even waste my time ringing to ask, as I KNOW the answer will be no. That train has got a long trip ahead of it, the cumulative delays to the other passengers on it and potential knock-on delays to other trains would not justify it. Sorry, harsh but true. If there is a service within an hour, then a taxi will not be authorised either. I have no idea why ATW held the next train, there must have been somebody on it with pull! They very very rarely hold trains, even the last one, in my experience.

I have no idea why the ATW staff told you you could not claim, but that would need a letter to ATW. You should be able to, no problems.

Sorry you had a bad journey. Next time, if you are going on the 1915, make a reservation, get there as early as possible, or go for a pint and catch the later train!

 

[s3an]

ATW staff cannot hold trains without prior authorisation from ATW control, I imagine this to be the same of all TOC's. Now if your FGW Train Manager is switched on enough to contact his control, who in turn can contact ATW control there is far more likelihood of that connection being held than if for example a member of ATW station staff phones control and asks for that hold.

Yes a very helpful FGW guard explained this to me a few years ago when I asked him why he was checking who had connections at Newport and where they were going. He didn't say it directly but implied there was a financial aspect somewhere.

If my memory serves correctly, the 2110 departure from NWP, connects or at least used to connect with the sleeper at Crewe hence ATW Control often refuse to hold this service as for quite obviously not wanting to pay for a taxi all the way up to Aberdeen.

No I don't think it does officially. I did get told once, by one of the staff at Newport that it was a boat train and boat trains couldn't be held.

It is also interesting to note that there have been times when I've made the connection and it is 5 minutes late at Abergavenny and 10 minutes late at Hereford, so it looks like there is some slackness and could be held for 10 minutes at Newport. No explanation of the lateness was ever given

As far as FGW is concerned they will not give you a taxi if there is another service within an hour - which I'd say isn't as bad as XC's policy of not providing a taxi if there is another service within 2 hours and as the next service heading towards HFD etc arrives at NWP at 2208 you've got no chance and from personal experience FGW take so long to organise taxi's that you may as well wait the hour anyway!!! That service is the last service forward to Crewe so it's in FGW's best interests to secure a hold with ATW on that service - doesn't always happen I can tell you that much.

The taxi journey can be interesting too, especially if you are crammed in with people and luggage. I do keep count and look for luggage when the numbers are added up at Newport, and try dive in quickly or hide at the back depending

I know that sometimes there won't be taxis, when the 20:15 is very late, especially on a friday. I've had ATW staff say it's nothing to do with them and we are all on our own. I suppose FGW can't get any taxis and decide to leave the AWT staff to deal with angry passengers. I think FGW use one taxi company only from Newport.

3 ATW staff member telling me the NEVER hold trains, when it is clearly a lie. He could have just said he didn't know.

To be honest, this is true, ATW station staff don't hold trains, it's only on control's say so. Think about it logically, if every train was held every train up for 10minutes the whole network would be running late, Network Rail charge by the minute for delaying a train and those charges are astronomical! By the time you've delayed a train for 10minutes, the service may not even be profitable!

I think what he was saying was ATW never hold trains. I have certainly been told in the past that it is ATW policy not to hold ANY trains. First held train I caught I realised it wasn't true.

I've had some strange explanations over the years for various things, especially the not holding connections question.
It is also annoying to see trains arrive on time, get a green signal and the guard continues chatting to staff on the platform for several minutes before deciding to leave.

Another point to note is passengers are quick to jump on you and complain when a train isn't held for them but they're often rarely say thank you when you do!
I know this doesn't really help you being an hour late home but I hope this helps you understand the procedures.

I usually say thanks to the ATW guard, if thye come round, but I do know it isn't their decision. And I do try to say thanks, or at least a little wave to the FGW guard if he has managed to get the connection held, even if i'm dashing over the platform.

I've got my routine sorted when I'm travelling back from London. Once we are running late I track what is happening with our arrival in Newport and how the connection is progressing. If we miss the connection it's off to the Old Murenger and back for the next one. It was overhearing the rubbish said on the platform at Newport and the couple of things on the earlier journey, that made me post here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A few points here, firstly, the 1915 especially on a Friday is a nightmare. Various things have been done about it, like removing all Advance ticket's from it, and removing Didcot as a stop, but they have made minimal differences. Apparently putting a 1945 on is now being looked at as well, but that is not something that can happen overnight.

Anybody who asks me about it, I recommend upgrading from a Super-off-peak to an off-peak and catching the 1845, which in my experience is rammed to Reading, then approx 50% of the passengers get off, and there are a few hundred empty seats the rest of the journey.

I usually try to get there before 7pm, if no delays on the board, get down on to platform 5, check if it's been signed up, double check by looking at a couple of reservations grab a seat in E, which is usually the carriage without reservations. Get out laptop, ipod, beer, sandwich, stow my bag and wait for the great stampede.

If I can't get there early then I'd rather stand than chance getting the 20:15 with all the potential probelms if it is late.

This time there were no empty seats until Bristol Parkway. Non stop until Swindon might work

Regarding announcements, what carriage were you in? There may have been an issue with the PA, they are not the most reliable, both the handsets, and the individual carriage speakers. I had that a few weeks ago myself, I was delayed and making announcements from coach A every few minutes, when I got a phone-call from the CH in 1st "What's going on, there's been no announcements". PA was not coming out in G & H.

I was standing by the door in E. There were some announcements just before each station telling us we were arriving.
I did nip down the platform at Swindon to get to C/B in case there were seats down there.

The lateness was probably caused by passenger loadings, with delays getting people on-off the train, that can add a few minutes per stop, by the time it reaches Newport that would all add up.

Yes lots of pushing and shoving to get off and on. Luggage in the aisles because all the racks are full, impeding passengers. Sometimes I do think an evil thought about taking a couple of bags or suitcases off at Reading and getting back on again.

In that situation, the connecting train would not be held at Newport. I wouldn't even waste my time ringing to ask, as I KNOW the answer will be no. That train has got a long trip ahead of it, the cumulative delays to the other passengers on it and potential knock-on delays to other trains would not justify it. Sorry, harsh but true. If there is a service within an hour, then a taxi will not be authorised either. I have no idea why ATW held the next train, there must have been somebody on it with pull! They very very rarely hold trains, even the last one, in my experience.

I never expect the connection for the 19:15 to be held.
I've seen the last one held more than not to be honest, but that could be down to luck.

I have no idea why the ATW staff told you you could not claim, but that would need a letter to ATW. You should be able to, no problems.

Sorry you had a bad journey. Next time, if you are going on the 1915, make a reservation, get there as early as possible, or go for a pint and catch the later train!

I knew I could claim, it was them telling other people they couldn't that was interesting me. The claim is against FGW, so just give forms out if people ask. To tell people they can't claim is unprofessional and it is a lie.

Reservations are only good if you can get to your seat. Getting on the train before it's on the board and into E is the best bet because it avoids any arguments with people who have reserved but the reservation hasn't been put out.

Friday 2nd December will be a good one with loads of Aussies off to Cardiff. Lots of them, but they travel light. And the University end of term Friday which is probably 16th, lots of bags, probably full of dirty washing for mum.