710112 collision with Buffers at Liverpool Street Station (15/10/2026)

NSEWonderer · Thursday at 19:46

sharpener said:
As an engineer I am curious about the dynamics of this kind of incident. What causes the side forces which cause the wheels to leave the track like this? Or do the bogies actually jump upward as the train tries to telescope and then land askew?

Pure momentum being stopped suddenly or simply F=ma. That sudden deacceleration creates a force that needed to go somewhere and the weakest part or part that can absorb thie most ends up being between carriages of a formation. These old style buffers do not absorb as much as the Hydraulic ones do so the left over energy ends up rebounding thru the train, some taken out by crumple zones but the rest will find an area of relative weakness. Those two carriages would have simply bounced up enough to come up, taking quite a bit of that energy out from reaching the rest of the formation.

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mr_moo · Thursday at 19:48

I've just come through Liverpool Street on my way home

I think they have moved the unit back away from the buffers but not sure.

I got grumbled at after taking the photo and told it was a crime scene but ultimately it's a thing that's there to be seen by oneone, and people as tall as me who can see over the barriers, well, sorry...

66701GBRF · Thursday at 19:48

Acathater said:
but if you look some of the bolts holding the bufferstop together have actually sheared off, allowing it to twist.
Three bolts on the vertical plate nearest the camera, one on the plate securing to the nearest rail. Looks like the buffers haven't moved along the rail, they've just broken and deformed

The buffers are no longer in line with the buffers on the opposite track so suggests they have moved. I don't know how far the track extends under the platform/wall but I suspect the lower part of the buffer frame has made contact with something solid underneath and caused more of a sudden stop which is why it derailed like it has.

saismee · Thursday at 19:51

mr_moo said:
I've just come through Liverpool Street on my way home

I think they have moved the unit back away from the buffers but not sure.

I got grumbled at after taking the photo and told it was a crime scene but ultimately it's a thing that's there to be seen by oneone, and people as tall as me who can see over the barriers, well, sorry...

~~It's definitely back on the rails here.~~
Well the front coach is back on...

Russel · Thursday at 19:56

saismee said:
It's definitely back on the rails here.

2nd coach looks like it's in the process of having the rearmost bogie re railed

tsyxa · Thursday at 19:58

saismee said:
It's definitely back on the rails here.

Look at the second coach from the front- the lighting plays a weird role here but it certainly looks like that coach is off the rails, the end of which is partly blocking the view of the third coach. You can tell by the fact that you can’t see the two windows this side of the doors on the 3rd coach.

Bald Rick · Thursday at 20:30

Acathater said:
More seriously, are those bolts on the buffer stop supposed to fail like that?

Yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 20:34 ==

saismee said:
It's definitely back on the rails here.

It’s not.

Some is. Some isn’t.

PudseyBearHST · Thursday at 20:41

357 said:
I don't know where this 8mph thing has come from. I always did more than 8mph at Liverpool Street and never got stopped.

From experience most are set at 11-12mph - and the policy is 10mph over the racks at most places.

Thanks

dk1 said:
It’s 10mph or below. Nine is fine, eight is great as they say.

Thanks, yes I know it’s recommended to do 8 but the grids are usually set at 12.5mph for freight/10mph for passenger (is that right?) so was wondering if Liverpool Street was different as that was what it sounded like in the message.

Bald Rick · Thursday at 20:43

PudseyBearHST said:
Thanks, yes I know it’s recommended to do 8 but the grids are usually set at 12.5mph for freight/10mph for passenger (is that right?) so was wondering if Liverpool Street was different as that was what it sounded like in the message.

TPWS on the approach to buffer stops are usually set for 10mph or 12.5mph depending on location. There is no differentiation between passenger and freight (Albeit freight rarely approaches bufferstops on passenger signalled lines).

RGM654 · Thursday at 20:51

Although incidents like this are rare, is the fact that they occur at all the reason why in normal service many trains stop a coach length or more before the buffers?

Horizon22 · Thursday at 21:38

dk1 said:
Only four cancellations still linked to the incident now and these are airport services so only a 15min inconvenience.

Lot more Overground / Weaver line cancellations.

dk1 · Thursday at 21:46

Horizon22 said:
Lot more Overground / Weaver line cancellations.

Do you know I didn’t even consider LO even though their train was involved. Apologies, my bad.

rmHawk765 · Thursday at 22:48

RGM654 said:
Although incidents like this are rare, is the fact that they occur at all the reason why in normal service many trains stop a coach length or more before the buffers?

Well 6 foot isn't exactly a coach length...

357 · Thursday at 23:52

Efini92 said:
What stock is that?

I try to avoid posting current information about my current employer, but 357/387s definitely flash both main beams together - and the two types I currently drive also flash both main beams together and were built by different companies just after the new millennium.

The first few seconds of this video show that Turbostars also have the same setup: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1EAEmiJ2Kb/

saismee · 2026-10-16T05:16:13+0100

Unit is now on its way to Ilford as 5V00

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:23953/2026-10-16/detailed

Dave W · 2026-10-16T07:14:12+0100

I've also seen the Instagram footage - there was an individual on the platform in hi viz who looks unconcerned all the way down until he disappears from shot, so would appear to be something that developed into the collision late, for whatever reason.

800301 · 2026-10-16T07:57:46+0100

Dave W said:
I've also seen the Instagram footage - there was an individual on the platform in hi viz who looks unconcerned all the way down until he disappears from shot, so would appear to be something that developed into the collision late, for whatever reason.

The way some drivers approach buffers and some stop car marks, you can’t exactly do much, if the driver for whatever reason can’t see the buffers ahead due to a medical episode or closed eyes then someone in orange isn’t going to be any different, by the time the person in orange probably realised what was going on it would have simply been too late not sure what he could have done anyway

bahnause · 2026-10-16T08:10:54+0100

saismee said:
I'd imagine ETCS would consider it the end of movement authority and would treat it the same as a red signal.

With ETCS, buffer stops are generally planned using release speeds. In our case, when the system was first introduced, the release speed was 15 km/h approximately 150 meters before the buffer stop. This has since been adjusted to approximately 20 meters, as the very restrictive application of the system had extended the travel time by about 40 seconds. Neither of the two options would prevent a collision as long as the speed remains below 15 km/h.

AlterEgo · 2026-10-16T08:13:28+0100

Dave W said:
I've also seen the Instagram footage - there was an individual on the platform in hi viz who looks unconcerned all the way down until he disappears from shot, so would appear to be something that developed into the collision late, for whatever reason.

Whoever it is doesn't know what hazard lights are, I'd be moving back especially in an OHLE environment.

Business Bob · 2026-10-16T08:14:37+0100

saismee said:
They're talking about the left/right strobe visible on the wall behind the buffers in the video. It's certainly not an effect from the poor re-recording.

I would expect hazard lights to be more even, as it appears to strobe left to right. It cannot be said whether it's hazards or a rolling shutter effect unless someone knows how the hazards look on this unit.

Hazards on a 710 the headlights flash simultaneously, so I think its a result of the frame rate as I've seen this alternative flashing on platform DOO monitors when headlights are on.

Harpo · 2026-10-16T08:23:43+0100

dk1 said:
Ironically platform 1 at Liverpool Street was a through platform back in the day.

Not my photo!

GB · 2026-10-16T08:27:24+0100

Harpo said:
Not my photo!

So you are not 106? :lol:

Dave W · 2026-10-16T08:38:24+0100

800301 said:
The way some drivers approach buffers and some stop car marks, you can’t exactly do much, if the driver for whatever reason can’t see the buffers ahead due to a medical episode or closed eyes then someone in orange isn’t going to be any different, by the time the person in orange probably realised what was going on it would have simply been too late not sure what he could have done anyway

I wouldn't expect them to do anything to help the situation - but their lack of reaction at all was what I was commenting on. If the train appeared to be coming in fast, or out of control, then what I would expect is for them to at least move back. Lots of reasons why they might have chose not to, of course.

Cowley · 2026-10-16T08:43:09+0100

Just to keep the thread relevant to this particular incident, there’s now a separate thread to discuss the forward facing video being released here:

Is it a good idea to release forward facing CCTV footage of incidents?

Seems like it was posted on the NR logs which are accessible for thousands of people in the industry. This often happens, but is rarely leaked. They won't find out who it was who's shared it from downloading those NR logs unfortunately. But as another poster said, this will just lead to the...

www.railforums.co.uk

cav1975 · 2026-10-16T09:16:21+0100

mr_moo said:
I got grumbled at after taking the photo and told it was a crime scene...

It is a sad indictment of modern thinking that any railway accident has to be treated as a crime scene. Learn lessons, yes, but don’t automatically assume criminality, please.

Class15 · 2026-10-16T09:19:26+0100

Quick question here: what is the point of running an empty train from Chingford to Liverpool Street at 1am? Its odd to me as the stabling sidings are at the Chingford end?

800301 · 2026-10-16T09:24:15+0100

Class15 said:
Quick question here: what is the point of running an empty train from Chingford to Liverpool Street at 1am? Its odd to me as the stabling sidings are at the Chingford end?

Likely due to a possession

martin2345uk · 2026-10-16T09:41:06+0100

AlterEgo said:
Whoever it is doesn't know what hazard lights are, I'd be moving back especially in an OHLE environment.

Pretty sure the hazards aren’t on…

jon0844 · 2026-10-16T09:45:00+0100

Dave W said:
I've also seen the Instagram footage - there was an individual on the platform in hi viz who looks unconcerned all the way down until he disappears from shot, so would appear to be something that developed into the collision late, for whatever reason.

A photo from another angle suggests the person may have been facing the other way and not aware of what was about to happen.

Harpo · 2026-10-16T10:19:55+0100

GB said:
So you are not 106?

You wouldn’t believe how hard it was to get a tripod camera into my pram. :lol:

710112 collision with Buffers at Liverpool Street Station (15/10/2026)

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