710112 collision with Buffers at Liverpool Street Station (15/10/2026)

E100 · 2026-10-15T15:39:02+0100

It stands to reason that this was at least a low speed collision and that members of the public haven't been involved from open source data saying this is very likely to have been an ESC movement. It's also stayed upright and only marginally to the side not impacting any other trains from what we can gather.

There'll certainly be lessons to be learnt and we can have confidence that they will be, however for now lets be thankful this wasn't more serious ~~and hope that staff involved aren't injured.~~
edit: see link for more details https://www.railmagazine.com/news/l...london-liverpool-street-buffer-stop-collision

RailUK Forums

357 · 2026-10-15T15:49:23+0100

PudseyBearHST said:
Is the 8mph specifically at Liverpool Street buffers? Any reason for it, downhill gradient?

I don't know where this 8mph thing has come from. I always did more than 8mph at Liverpool Street and never got stopped.

From experience most are set at 11-12mph - and the policy is 10mph over the racks at most places.

dk1 · 2026-10-15T15:49:39+0100

PudseyBearHST said:
Is the 8mph specifically at Liverpool Street buffers? Any reason for it, downhill gradient?

It’s 10mph or below. Nine is fine, eight is great as they say.

Horizon22 · 2026-10-15T16:00:53+0100

E100 said:
It stands to reason that this was at least a low speed collision and that members of the public haven't been involved from open source data saying this is very likely to have been an ESC movement. It's also stayed upright and only marginally to the side not impacting any other trains from what we can gather.

It was an ECS move in the early hours of the 15th.

dk1 · 2026-10-15T16:04:55+0100

E100 said:
It stands to reason that this was at least a low speed collision and that members of the public haven't been involved from open source data saying this is very likely to have been an ESC movement. It's also stayed upright and only marginally to the side not impacting any other trains from what we can gather.

Empty Stock Coaching. First time I’ve seen it that way round

Straus · 2026-10-15T16:12:06+0100

dk1 said:
Empty Stock Coaching. First time I’ve seen it that way round

Erroneous Stopping Collision

dk1 · 2026-10-15T16:13:09+0100

Straus said:
Erroneous Stopping Collision

Very good

sad1e · 2026-10-15T16:25:18+0100

I wonder if there's any lasting damage to the 710 , can't be healthy having it pop off the rails like that.
Presumably the unit will be out of service for quite a while.

dk1 · 2026-10-15T16:33:53+0100

sad1e said:
I wonder if there's any lasting damage to the 710 , can't be healthy having it pop off the rails like that.
Presumably the unit will be out of service for quite a while.

A similar incident occurred with a sister unit at Enfield in 2023. Not sure how long it was out of traffic.

sharpener · 2026-10-15T17:26:45+0100

NSEWonderer said:
View attachment 213423

As an engineer I am curious about the dynamics of this kind of incident. What causes the side forces which cause the wheels to leave the track like this? Or do the bogies actually jump upward as the train tries to telescope and then land askew?

Efini92 · 2026-10-15T17:37:12+0100

martin2345uk said:
Do these trains hazard lights flash both lights simultaneously or each light in turn?

Each light in turn on stock that only has one headlight on. I’m not sure about newer stock that run with both headlights on.

norbitonflyer said:
There you go, jumping to conclusions. Who says it was the driver's fault? Could have been out of his/her control - faulty brakes for example.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was ruled not to be drivers fault from looking at that video.

Horizon22 · 2026-10-15T17:40:21+0100

Efini92 said:
Each light in turn on stock that only has one headlight on. I’m not sure about newer stock that run with both headlights on.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was ruled not to be drivers fault from looking at that video.

We simply don't know right now of course. It could be a unit defect, track defect, driver issue (loss of awareness or a microsleep for example) or a combination of various issues. This is why the RAIB will look into it.

AndrewE · 2026-10-15T17:40:45+0100

Efini92 said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was ruled not to be drivers fault from looking at that video.

Are we into wheelslip protection times? I believe that has been known to over-ride drivers attempts to stop...

Acathater · 2026-10-15T17:42:45+0100

martin2345uk said:
Do these trains hazard lights flash both lights simultaneously or each light in turn?

So that's not the turn indicators then....

More seriously, are those bolts on the buffer stop supposed to fail like that?

Stossgebet · 2026-10-15T17:43:56+0100

E100 said:
It stands to reason that this was at least a low speed collision and that members of the public haven't been involved from open source data saying this is very likely to have been an ESC movement. It's also stayed upright and only marginally to the side not impacting any other trains from what we can gather.

There'll certainly be lessons to be learnt and we can have confidence that they will be, however for now lets be thankful this wasn't more serious ~~and hope that staff involved aren't injured.~~
edit: see link for more details https://www.railmagazine.com/news/l...london-liverpool-street-buffer-stop-collision

The absolute irony of not being able to see the link, without paying to protect your own privacy!!!

Nottingham59 · 2026-10-15T18:01:34+0100

sharpener said:
As an engineer I am curious about the dynamics of this kind of incident. What causes the side forces which cause the wheels to leave the track like this? Or do the bogies actually jump upward as the train tries to telescope and then land askew?

A train at 10mph has enough kinetic energy to raise the entire train up 1 metre. At 5mph, that would be a quarter as much (25cm). But still plenty to lift one end of one carriage high enough to throw it off the rails.

The sideways forces to throw one carriage end sideways will come from minor asymmetries in the coupling between the derailed carriage with the one next to it, with the other carriage being pushed down and sideways by the shock loading but not derailing.

Efini92 · 2026-10-15T18:08:15+0100

AndrewE said:
Are we into wheelslip protection times? I believe that has been known to over-ride drivers attempts to stop...

Not sure what’s caused it but you can see the reflection of the hazards flashing before the train has even reached the tpws grids. The driver recognised the imminent collision with enough time and mental capacity to switch them on.

Horizon22 said:
We simply don't know right now of course. It could be a unit defect, track defect, driver issue (loss of awareness or a microsleep for example) or a combination of various issues. This is why the RAIB will look into it.

Yeah you’re right we don’t, microsleep is a common one with buffer stop collisions. Though in this case the evidence doesn’t suggest it.
Will certainly be interesting to see what the report comes out with.

Posa · 2026-10-15T18:11:53+0100

To be a medical emergency the driver would have had to have it in the very short time between the tpws sensors and when they crashed their train into the buffers.

The brakes managed to work to bring the train all the way from Chingford and to brake to below the tpws sensors trigger point.

.

357 · 2026-10-15T18:28:13+0100

Efini92 said:
Each light in turn on stock that only has one headlight on.

Not the case on the four types of train I've signed that have day and night running lights. The hazard lights flash both main beams together.

Trainguy34 · 2026-10-15T18:47:49+0100

Posa said:
The brakes managed to work to bring the train all the way from Chingford and to brake to below the tpws sensors trigger point.

Would there have been much braking considering it was an ECS with little congestion (~1am)?

trainmania100 · 2026-10-15T18:53:19+0100

Acathater said:
So that's not the turn indicators then....

More seriously, are those bolts on the buffer stop supposed to fail like that?

I assumed the buffers were meant to be pushed backwards, some have springs, others have plenty of rail behind them so they can be pushed back in incidents like this. I could be wrong

dk1 · 2026-10-15T19:02:12+0100

Ironically platform 1 at Liverpool Street was a through platform back in the day.

Efini92 · 2026-10-15T19:04:34+0100

357 said:
Not the case on the four types of train I've signed that have day and night running lights. The hazard lights flash both main beams together.

What stock is that?

Russel · 2026-10-15T19:04:38+0100

dk1 said:
Ironically platform 1 at Liverpool Street was a through platform back in the day.

Shows the importance of keeping ones route knowledge up to date :lol:

wanderingriver · 2026-10-15T19:17:23+0100

Has there been any attempt(s) on recovery? I see, unsurprisingly, that Platform 1 & 2 are still closed

dk1 · 2026-10-15T19:23:43+0100

wanderingriver said:
Has there been any attempt(s) on recovery? I see, unsurprisingly, that Platform 1 & 2 are still closed

Only four cancellations still linked to the incident now and these are airport services so only a 15min inconvenience.

Acathater · 2026-10-15T19:35:22+0100

trainmania100 said:
I assumed the buffers were meant to be pushed backwards, some have springs, others have plenty of rail behind them so they can be pushed back in incidents like this. I could be wrong

but if you look some of the bolts holding the bufferstop together have actually sheared off, allowing it to twist.
Three bolts on the vertical plate nearest the camera, one on the plate securing to the nearest rail. Looks like the buffers haven't moved along the rail, they've just broken and deformed

saismee · 2026-10-15T19:38:30+0100

wanderingriver said:
Has there been any attempt(s) on recovery? I see, unsurprisingly, that Platform 1 & 2 are still closed

I believe it is either fully or mostly re-railed now.

800301 · 2026-10-15T19:38:33+0100

While it's an outdated system, and obviously not fitted, ATP could have prevented this if the train speed was above 6mph, I'm not sure what ETCS would do in the situation

saismee · 2026-10-15T19:40:52+0100

800301 said:
While it's an outdated system, and obviously not fitted, ATP could have prevented this if the train speed was above 6mph, I'm not sure what ETCS would do in the situation

I'd imagine ETCS would consider it the end of movement authority and would treat it the same as a red signal.

710112 collision with Buffers at Liverpool Street Station (15/10/2026)

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