Greater Anglia short faring : I have questions

So, today my luck finally ran out and now I must pay the price for fare evasion.

I have ad-hoc commutes from a South Essex station to London for work : the correct procedure would be to have a ticket between home and London Stratford, at which point I then hop on the tube. However, often I will instead buy a return between home and the station prior to Stratford to save myself some money, hedging my bets that there will be no staff checking tickets. I have received a fine once before, but that was for an honest mistake, where I did not realise that my Network Railcard had expired, and I paid on the spot and hastily renewed my railcard.

Today there were plenty of Greater Anglia staff in evidence at Stratford performing checks, so I decided to take the lift from the platform to the underpass. But a very smart and very friendly plain clothes police officer was waiting for me, so I was placed under caution. I confessed to having not paid for the full journey and provided my details and answered all questions truthfully, including mentioning that I had done this before (although I wasn't able to quantify how many times I had done this).

The police officer stated that he would recommend that this doesn't go to court when passed to the train operator (Greater Anglia), and to await correspondence from them.

My concerns are as follows :

* Having looked through my full history in the Trainline App, I have done this over 90(!) times since the start of 2024. Will all of these be taken into account now that I have already mentioned when questioned that this is not my first infraction (although my first time being caught)?
* If so, I am unsure as to whether any out of court settlement will charge however many offences they elect to pursue me for at a rate of two singles for the journey unpaid for, or at a rate of the two singles for the entire journey including the paid-for portion.
* If this is the case, is my Network Railcard taken into consideration or will Greater Anglia apply these as if I do not hold any rail cards?
* Finally (I appreciate that this is a "how long is a piece of string" question), what is the likelihood of me being hit with the full sledgehammer of a best-case scenario settlement of over £2k, escalating from there?

I have shown contrition and honesty on being discovered, which was appreciated by the police officer, and will do similarly in any subsequent communication with Greater Anglia. That being said, I am understandably very nervous about the outcome of this and any advice from the wise folk on this forum would be hugely appreciated.

What exact ticket was held? I think that in this case there is a slim but possible chance that your ticket will actually be valid through Stratford, especially if you are purchasing to Maryland. But if you're purchasing tickets only covering one stop, that's obviously very unlikely to be valid.

It was a ticket from my home station to/from Shenfield, which is the final stop on that particular line prior to Stratford (assuming the route doesn't include Romford). Definitely not valid through Stratford.

The amount you'll be asked to pay will depend on whether GA decide to look back through your Trainline history. If they do then you will likely be on the hook for all 90+ journeys. GA will be asking for the full Anytime Single fare for each journey you have taken. Any amounts you have paid in tickets so far will not be considered, neither will a railcard discount, and returns will be charged as two singles, not as a return.

So, look up what the Anytime Single fare for each journey is, add a couple hundred for admin costs on GA's side, and you have the amount you might be expected to pay.

Western Lancer will be along shortly with his comprehensive guide I'm sure but in short

The policeman had no right to offer any comfort - you could be prosecuted for this one offence

They will trawl your purchase history - and there is no point trying to delete it.

They can offer a settlement proabaly based on the anytime single for every journey undertaken without a valid ticket. No credot is usually given for any fares paid and the railcard will I think be ignored.

You can work out the likely cost from looking up the fare from your origin station to Stratford on any booking site and multiply it by 90 adding a £150 admin fee.

Greater Anglia will only be able to prosecute based on the evidence available to them.
They won't have access to your Trainline history. Trainline is a private company not owned by the Train Operators and under GDPR they (Trainline) have to keep customer data private. It would require a court order to release it and even then I suspect it would not be straight forward?

That's the worst case scenario from my POV, of course, so I guess I'll have to wait a few weeks for a letter or email to arrive.

Would the anytime singles be calculated on 2026 prices only, or do prices from previous years get factored into the calculations?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 13:27 ==

TerryGerinGore said:

That's the worst case scenario from my POV, of course, so I guess I'll have to wait a few weeks for a letter or email to arrive.

Would the anytime singles be calculated on 2026 prices only, or do prices from previous years get factored into the calculations?

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(sorry, this was in response to antharro, I forgot to quote!)

From Trainline Privacy Page https://www.thetrainline.com/terms/privacy

"We may also share your personal data with travel operators to prevent and detect fraud against either you, Trainline or the travel operator. We only share what is necessary to meet this purpose, and we make it clear to them they must keep your personal data safe."

CDM said:

Greater Anglia will only be able to prosecute based on the evidence available to them.
They won't have access to your Trainline history. Trainline is a private company not owned by the Train Operators and under GDPR they (Trainline) have to keep customer data private. It would require a court order to release it and even then I suspect it would not be straight forward?

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That's completely wrong. We see cases here all the time where TOCs have obtained records from Trainline.

greatkingrat said:

That's completely wrong. We see cases here all the time where TOCs have obtained records from Trainline.

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Indeed - and one of the first to pioneer using data from Trainline to locate suspicious ticket patterns was IIRC Greater Anglia

Swedenorer said:

From Trainline Privacy Page https://www.thetrainline.com/terms/privacy

"We may also share your personal data with travel operators to prevent and detect fraud against either you, Trainline or the travel operator. We only share what is necessary to meet this purpose, and we make it clear to them they must keep your personal data safe."

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Interestingly I can't find that quote within that link.
Which section is it in?
There is a section about sharing data if the operator runs payment through their systems and about sharing data with ATOC in order to check railcards are being used legitimately in the purchasing of tickets.

CDM said:

Interestingly I can't find that quote within that link.
Which section is it in?
There is a section about sharing data if the operator runs payment through their systems and about sharing data with ATOC in order to check railcards are being used legitimately in the purchasing of tickets.

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It's in the Third Parties > Travel Operators (rail, coach and bus) section.

Travel operators (rail, coach and bus)​

We work with travel operators who also need your data to create your tickets and provide services in relation to your journey as well as to deal with after-sales matters. Some travel operators may run your data through their own payment and eticket systems in order to issue your tickets or notify you of any travel disruption. We may also share your personal data with travel operators to prevent and detect fraud against either you, Trainline or the travel operator. We only share what is necessary to meet this purpose, and we make it clear to them they must keep your personal data safe.

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antharro said:

Any amounts you have paid in tickets so far will not be considered,

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I'm not sure about this actually - depends how GA approach these things. If the OP had a valid ticket for some of the journey they may accept that and if they are prepared to offer a settlement out of court, ask for the portion of the journey where no ticket was held.

I can't recall what GA tend to do. IIRC GWR do give credit for tickets held

antharro said:

neither will a railcard discount, and returns will be charged as two singles, not as a return.

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Agree with this. I don't think you can expect to be offered a Railcard discount on a ticket you didn't buy nor had an intention to buy....otherwise why would you ever buy a ticket before travel if you could still get the cheapest fare option on the occasions you got caught.

antharro said:

So, look up what the Anytime Single fare for each journey is, add a couple hundred for admin costs on GA's side, and you have the amount you might be expected to pay.

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Yes, it's better for the OP to prepare for the worst and anything less is good fortune - so that means the Anytime Fare from point of origin for the full travel. If they only seek an Anytime fare for part of the journey then that's good fortune

I assume the way to deal with this in due course is for the OP to accept that they did not have a valid ticket between Shenfield and Stratford (presumably) - which was probably what was already admitted to when stopped and questioned.

CDM said:

Greater Anglia will only be able to prosecute based on the evidence available to them.
They won't have access to your Trainline history. Trainline is a private company not owned by the Train Operators and under GDPR they (Trainline) have to keep customer data private. It would require a court order to release it and even then I suspect it would not be straight forward?

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On the basis of hundreds of cases we have seen here, this is completely wrong, and the OP would be ill advised to rely on it.

Swedenorer said:

Western Lancer will be along shortly with his comprehensive guide I'm sure but in short

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Actually full credit for the general info that follows goes to longstanding forum member @Hadders who I noticed often used to post it to give people a good idea on what to expect and I always thought it was an excellent outline.
I would think it will be of help to @TerryGerinGore so here it is:

Firstly, you committed a criminal offence by travelling with an invalid ticket and railway companies are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. The good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

Next, what happens is the railway company will write to you. The letter will go to the address that you gave them / on any of your ID they checked so you need to be able to access hard copy post at that address as they often send things that way (but also check e-mail and spam). It is extremely important that you reply, and you'll only have a limited time to do so (often 14 days from the date on their communication).

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The railway will probably offer you an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare for the journey you made at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for any invalid ticket you purchased. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150. They will also audit your online ticket purchase history and if this shows you've purchased other tickets that were not valid (eg railcard discounted tickets when you did not have a valid railcard, or tickets for only part of the journey, or tickets bought after boarding the train you travelled on) they will probably factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement offer. Depending on how many journeys you've made over the period concerned this could end up being expensive.

Settlements usually have to be paid in full within a few days of them being offered so if money is tight you might want to think about how you will raise the sum required at short notice.

WesternLancer said:

Yes, it's better for the OP to prepare for the worst and anything less is good fortune - so that means the Anytime Fare from point of origin for the full travel. If they only seek an Anytime fare for part of the journey then that's good fortune

I assume the way to deal with this in due course is for the OP to accept that they did not have a valid ticket between Shenfield and Stratford (presumably) - which was probably what was already admitted to when stopped and questioned.

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I suppose it all hinges on whether Greater Anglia want to take a look at previous journeys. Today's misdemeanour is much easier to swallow than a huge number of them.

But yes, I 100% accept that I didn't have a valid ticket between Shenfield and Stratford, I said to the plain clothes officer that it's highly unlikely anyone would do this unintentionally.

TerryGerinGore said:

I suppose it all hinges on whether Greater Anglia want to take a look at previous journeys.

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I think you should fully expect that they will look at your journey history. Some train companies were less likely than others to do this in the past but we are now seeing on here it becoming more the case that this is a routine check most if not all of them now do. They know statistically people don't get caught the first occasion

As mentioned above do not delete your trainline account now though - they can still access it and you can't - that puts you at a disadvantage if you delete it (eg if they are open to accepting the ticket you did hold for part of the journey, being able to prove you had bought one via your Trainline account history will be important)

In fact go through your Trainline account and start collating proof of the tickets you did have and keep that proof safe (eg screen shots or whatever - don't rely on just the data being available via the account whenever you need it - just in case it isn't) - you might need this. It's useful preparation you can do for what is to come

TerryGerinGore said:

Today's misdemeanour is much easier to swallow than a huge number of them.

But yes, I 100% accept that I didn't have a valid ticket between Shenfield and Stratford, I said to the plain clothes officer that it's highly unlikely anyone would do this unintentionally.

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An Anytime Single Shenfield to Stratford looks like £13.30
They may even accept the price for older evasion at the ticket price charged at the time - this can all be checked via the BRFares website : eg
(see the 'fares period' selector)

But- you are not in a strong position to negotiate with them over all this - they have you over a barrel because they can escalate this to court if they want to and the court fine, costs etc etc will be higher - as well as the criminal record which you will want to avoid

But if you convince them that you have learned a lesson and changed your ways, and are being honest and co-operative - form what we see on here they will play fair with you

WesternLancer said:

I think you should fully expect that they will look at your journey history. Some train companies were less likely than others to do this in the past but we are now seeing on here it becoming more the case that this is a routine check most if not all of them now do. They know statistically people don't get caught the first occasion

As mentioned above do not delete your trainline account now though - they can still access it and you can't - that puts you at a disadvantage if you delete it (eg if they are open to accepting the ticket you did hold for part of the journey, being able to prove you had bought one via your Trainline account history will be important)

In fact go through your Trainline account and start collating proof of the tickets you did have and keep that proof safe (eg screen shots or whatever - don't rely on just the data being available via the account whenever you need it - just in case it isn't) - you might need this. It's useful preparation you can do for what is to come



An Anytime Single Shenfield to Stratford looks like £13.30
They may even accept the price for older evasion at the ticket price charged at the time - this can all be checked via the BRFares website : eg

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks, at face value with no fees. Every British rail fare shown, railcard discounts included.

www.brfares.com

(see the 'fares period' selector)

But- you are not in a strong position to negotiate with them over all this - they have you over a barrel because they can escalate this to court if they want to and the court fine, costs etc etc will be higher - as well as the criminal record which you will want to avoid

But if you convince them that you have learned a lesson and changed your ways, and are being honest and co-operative - form what we see on here they will play fair with you

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I definitely won't be deleting my account, that only deprives me of the information and puts me in an even worse position.

What is meant exactly by "play fair"? Is there a degree of concession/mercy extended?

Just on your specifics many of these have already been answered by well informed forum members but see below

TerryGerinGore said:

* Having looked through my full history in the Trainline App, I have done this over 90(!) times since the start of 2024. Will all of these be taken into account now that I have already mentioned when questioned that this is not my first infraction (although my first time being caught)?

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You should assume that they will be taken into account and budget accordingly

TerryGerinGore said:

* If so, I am unsure as to whether any out of court settlement will charge however many offences they elect to pursue me for at a rate of two singles for the journey unpaid for, or at a rate of the two singles for the entire journey including the paid-for portion.

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As mentioned - prepare for the highest cost, anything less is then good luck

TerryGerinGore said:

* If this is the case, is my Network Railcard taken into consideration or will Greater Anglia apply these as if I do not hold any rail cards?

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I can't imagine Railcard would be taken into account

TerryGerinGore said:

* Finally (I appreciate that this is a "how long is a piece of string" question), what is the likelihood of me being hit with the full sledgehammer of a best-case scenario settlement of over £2k, escalating from there?

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You need to budget for this worst case cost really

An out of court settlement can not be guaranteed but from what we see on here it is likely to be achievable if you co-operate with the GA.

All you can really do for now is

- background preparation (so ask all the questions here you can think of)
- make sure to buy correct train tickets every time in future
- wait for their letter or e-mail which might take some weeks to arrive
- head back here for advice when you hear from GA

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 14:53 ==

TerryGerinGore said:

What is meant exactly by "play fair"? Is there a degree of concession/mercy extended?

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I suppose I mean, from what we see on the forum - things like

They won't aim to 'trick you' into paying more than they believe you owe (albeit charging peak time fares in their calculations)

They don't try to extract info from people under the implication that they will settle out of court, but then opt to prosecute after all

Many thanks for all your contributions so far.

A follow-up question : should I have been provided by the officer with any sort of copy/receipt of the notes or paperwork I completed today?

CDM said:

Greater Anglia will only be able to prosecute based on the evidence available to them.
They won't have access to your Trainline history. Trainline is a private company not owned by the Train Operators and under GDPR they (Trainline) have to keep customer data private. It would require a court order to release it and even then I suspect it would not be straight forward?

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This is so spectacularly wrong, and has been proven so for years, that it is unfunny.

TerryGerinGore said:

Many thanks for all your contributions so far.

A follow-up question : should I have been provided by the officer with any sort of copy/receipt of the notes or paperwork I completed today?

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This seems to vary by train company - some inspectors at some companies will routinely provide a confirmation slip saying people have been reported for investigation (TIR - ticket irregularity report) with a ref number on it that can be handy to have - you might see copies uploaded in other threads by people. But others don't necessarily seem to do this.

If you were interviewed by a Transport Police Officer (BTP) who was supporting a railway revenue protection team they might not do this anyway if they work to different procedures to rail staff.

Are you sure it was a plain clothes police officer? Could it have been a plain clothes railway revenue protection officer? They would still have ID badges and would 'read you your rights' I would imagine

I don't think it makes any difference if you were or were not given any paperwork.

Were you asked to confirm any of the details they took down? - eg specifically name and address. It's generally in your interests that they got this recorded correctly.

CDM said:

Greater Anglia will only be able to prosecute based on the evidence available to them.
They won't have access to your Trainline history.

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Wrong.

CDM said:

Trainline is a private company not owned by the Train Operators and under GDPR they (Trainline) have to keep customer data private. It would require a court order to release it

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Wrong.

The sharing of this data is entirely routine under 5he somewhat contentious guise of preventing or detecting crime, as you would know if you'd been in this part of the forum very frequently. Please don't post things which are demonstrably untrue; this can harm people who come here for help.

WesternLancer said:

Are you sure it was a plain clothes police officer? Could it have been a plain clothes railway revenue protection officer? They would still have ID badges and would 'read you your rights' I would imagine

I don't think it makes any difference if you were or were not given any paperwork.

Were you asked to confirm any of the details they took down? - eg specifically name and address. It's generally in your interests that they got this recorded correctly.

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I'm not 100% sure, but his badge looked somewhat shiny and police insignia-esque. I was placed under caution and given the "you don't have to say anything now, but... etc." so I assume this was a legitimate police officer assisting Greater Anglia with their operation.

I provided name and email twice, once on a pre-printed slip that the officer had, the other I wrote in his notebook alongside the other notes he had taken when questioning me. I was given the opportunity to review the contents of the slip and of his notes to ensure that the details were correct.

TerryGerinGore said:

I'm not 100% sure, but his badge looked somewhat shiny and police insignia-esque. I was placed under caution and given the "you don't have to say anything now, but... etc." so I assume this was a legitimate police officer assisting Greater Anglia with their operation.

I provided name and email twice, once on a pre-printed slip that the officer had, the other I wrote in his notebook alongside the other notes he had taken when questioning me. I was given the opportunity to review the contents of the slip and of his notes to ensure that the details were correct.

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Thanks - seems they were thorough whoever they were.

WesternLancer said:

Thanks - seems they were thorough whoever they were.

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They absolutely were, but also advised that my owning up created a favourable impression and that when the report is written next week, their recommendation will be that this does not go to court (although I am taking this with a fairly large pinch of salt).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 18:14 ==

It's a shame that this thread from 2024 ground to a halt as it's someone in exactly the same boat as me, but there was never any follow up.

There are several threads where the OP doesn't return to advise of the outcome and I'm not sure if that's good or bad news...

TerryGerinGore said:

They absolutely were, but also advised that my owning up created a favourable impression and that when the report is written next week, their recommendation will be that this does not go to court (although I am taking this with a fairly large pinch of salt).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 18:14 ==

It's a shame that this thread from 2024 ground to a halt as it's someone in exactly the same boat as me, but there was never any follow up.

There are several threads where the OP doesn't return to advise of the outcome and I'm not sure if that's good or bad news...

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Yes some people don’t come back to update which is a shame from an information perspective.
My hunch is that they resolve it without needing further help so don’t need to ask again here.

At a guess if things were getting escalated and they needed more help they would likely come back for advice on it.

Whilst TfL generally default to prosecution, the railway companies don’t. No doubt they take plenty of cases to court too, but that seems to involve people who don’t engage with them after being caught (ie ignored letters) or were repeat offenders who persisted evading after being caught on previous occasions.

WesternLancer said:

Yes some people don’t come back to update which is a shame from an information perspective.
My hunch is that they resolve it without needing further help so don’t need to ask again here.

At a guess if things were getting escalated and they needed more help they would likely come back for advice on it.

Whilst TfL generally default to prosecution, the railway companies don’t. No doubt they take plenty of cases to court too, but that seems to involve people who don’t engage with them after being caught (ie ignored letters) or were repeat offenders who persisted evading after being caught on previous occasions.

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There will certainly not be a repeat performance!

As mentioned up-thread, my only previous issue was an on-the-spot fine received for inadvertently travelling with an expired Railcard. I can't imagine that will play a role here (and fortunately they didn't retroactively pursue other trips I had made post-expiry).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 19:00 ==

TerryGerinGore said:

There will certainly not be a repeat performance!

As mentioned up-thread, my only previous issue was an on-the-spot fine received for inadvertently travelling with an expired Railcard. I can't imagine that will play a role here (and fortunately they didn't retroactively pursue other trips I had made post-expiry).

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Sorry for the persistent posting but I've remembered something else : the officer snapped a pic off of my phone screen of today's ticket for which I was stopped. While we did briefly scroll through my Trainline history (but only as far back as September as I am a regular (full journey) traveller on other routes), no photos were taken of this to the best of my knowledge.

I'm not sure if this implies he will strictly be pursuing the sole offence or if that's wishful thinking on my part!

TerryGerinGore said:

I'm not 100% sure, but his badge looked somewhat shiny and police insignia-esque. I was placed under caution and given the "you don't have to say anything now, but... etc." so I assume this was a legitimate police officer assisting Greater Anglia with their operation.

I provided name and email twice, once on a pre-printed slip that the officer had, the other I wrote in his notebook alongside the other notes he had taken when questioning me. I was given the opportunity to review the contents of the slip and of his notes to ensure that the details were correct.

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That sounds like a revenue protection inspector, not a police officer.

TerryGerinGore said:

There will certainly not be a repeat performance!

As mentioned up-thread, my only previous issue was an on-the-spot fine received for inadvertently travelling with an expired Railcard. I can't imagine that will play a role here (and fortunately they didn't retroactively pursue other trips I had made post-expiry).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 19:00 ==


Sorry for the persistent posting but I've remembered something else : the officer snapped a pic off of my phone screen of today's ticket for which I was stopped. While we did briefly scroll through my Trainline history (but only as far back as September as I am a regular (full journey) traveller on other routes), no photos were taken of this to the best of my knowledge.

I'm not sure if this implies he will strictly be pursuing the sole offence or if that's wishful thinking on my part!

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Reckon that’s wishful thinking.

My guess is they want a copy of your ticket when caught as that’s evidence they need. If they did need to prosecute they need this.
The prosecution is for the one offence when caught red handed. Supported by evidence.

It’s the threat of that, or rather avoiding that, which is the leverage the railway can use to seek the other evaded fares as part of a settlement offer. If settlement not paid then escalating to court is their next option.

Settlements are easier for them too. They get the money owed without the extra work of preparing court papers etc. that doesn’t guarantee one but it increases the likelihood.