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Commuter and Metro Services: Which Rolling Stock Upgrade Had the Greatest Impact? In the last 40 years
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DaveyJones
Member
Nervous to suggest it, but The Class 730/0's taking over the cross city in Birmingham from 323s?
RichJF
Established Member
Either 700s taking over Thameslink just for sheer capacity, passenger through flow & reliability vs previous.
That or the 375s/377s taking over the vast bulk of London & South East services. Provoked a major 3rd rail infrastructure upgrade & wholesale replacement of dangerous slam door stock.
That or the 375s/377s taking over the vast bulk of London & South East services. Provoked a major 3rd rail infrastructure upgrade & wholesale replacement of dangerous slam door stock.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Dangerous...? Depends on where you read or who you listen to. Anything can be dangerous if used improperly
Morayshire
Member
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Personally, it would be the introduction of Scotrails HSTs once they finally got them sorted out and especially once the 5 coach sets were introduced. More seats and eventually less chance of a 158 instead of a 170 on my evening commute home.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Inter City - the HST. If you want to limit to the last 40 years, it has to be the Pendolino and Voyager - both big steps backwards from the ambience of a Mark 3 (you didn't say the impact had to be positive)
Suburban - on each route, the replacement of slam door with power doors (whether on the Great Eastern lines in 1949 or the South western over 50 years later)
Rural - the first generation DMUs in the late 50s/early 60s were the biggest step - there has been no more significant change in the past 40 years
Suburban - on each route, the replacement of slam door with power doors (whether on the Great Eastern lines in 1949 or the South western over 50 years later)
Rural - the first generation DMUs in the late 50s/early 60s were the biggest step - there has been no more significant change in the past 40 years
59CosG95
Established Member
156s/158s/159s replacing loco-hauled across the UK, e.g. 50s & Mark IIs on the WoEML; 37s on the WHL, etc.
More reliable, yes, but the enthusiast value certainly dropped (as we do love the whimsy of a loco-hauled service!)
More reliable, yes, but the enthusiast value certainly dropped (as we do love the whimsy of a loco-hauled service!)
brad465
Veteran Member
345s and 387s replacing 165/166s on the Thames Valley GWML corridor. We are talking 2-6 car services being replaced by 8-9 car services, going to 12-car on some peak extras. The 345s especially being part of the Elizabeth line provides the Thames Valley with direct services to the West End and City.
Royston Vasey
Established Member
CEPs to 444s must have felt like travelling forward decades in time, although the 444s were barely a step up, if at all, from the 442s that had also operated the same routes for 15 years by that point!
If they count as commuter trains (which on some routes they might well do) then the Civity fleet replacing the Pacers was an upgrade in every sense of the word. No more bus bodies on bouncy freight wagons powered by noisy diesel engines, just proper modern trains designed with bogie coaches and air conditioning.
Though the reliability point has to be considered in the context of the maintenance run-down that usually preceded the changeover (itself frequently delayed). Yes - in general reliability would have improved, but the improvement wouldn’t have been as great as it actually appeared.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Particularly as 195s ended up replacing Pacers directly on stuff like the east Manchester suburbans once it was found what a difference they made with high acceleration and an interior designed to work well with high loadings. They weren't ordered specifically for that, rather for the abortive "Northern Connect", but I think their real benefits were soon seen.
Elsewhere I'd probably go somewhere between the 700s and the LU S-stock. Both replaced something very dated and unfit for purpose with something very modern designed specifically for what they do. The 700s often get criticism here, and it is true the seats are hard and the interior scheme is a bit boring, but they are very good at dealing with high loadings and - importantly - boarding and alighting those loadings very quickly. The S-stock took the shallow Tube from old and tatty to up there with the best German S-Bahnen.
Probably also overcrowded, tatty, smelly Turbos to the Liz, but that's a whole package, not just stock. People have now largely forgotten just how awful the Paddington DMU commuter services actually were.
The 700s have their flaws but from an operational standpoint they are a massive upgrade, and the S-Stock in particular is proving it's worth similarly to the 195s on Northern Connect thanks to it's air conditioning providing some degree of refuge from London's increasingly hot summers. I expect the new Piccadilly Line stock will be considered just as big an upgrade, especially with them being the first air-conditioned deep level tube stock (though likely undermined by stations still being furnaces and forcing the cooling units to work harder than they need to with the frequent air exchange from doors opening and closing).
43096
On Moderation
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323s replacing 304s around Manchester. Just a massive improvement in every way.
Were the turbos to Liz a direct replacement? I don't recall there being many turbos when the 345s were introduced, it was pretty much full 387 land by then? I thought the immediate replacement timeline was 165/166 - 387 - 345
Also didnt the Greenford shuttle run to Paddington back then? So you basically had one diagram in the rush hour which was a 2 car service?
Casper Pesky
Member
Biggest shock stock improvement I remember was the introduction of D78 stock on the District line - almost like a century of innovation had happened overnight.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It's a bit outside the 40 year limit, but the introduction of 317s on the St Pancras-Bedford route in 1983 must be high on the list.
Apart from the introduction of DOO, they replaced slam door stock and the 100mph Mk3-derived bodyshell in subsequent orders worked its way round most of the NSE AC EMU network (and Glasgow), and then spawned the Networker.
Apart from the introduction of DOO, they replaced slam door stock and the 100mph Mk3-derived bodyshell in subsequent orders worked its way round most of the NSE AC EMU network (and Glasgow), and then spawned the Networker.
Kite159
Veteran Member
The Greenford shuttle got cut back to West Ealing when the first of the GWR 387s arrived, with the path into Paddington being used by a half hourly Hayes & Harlington stopper*. When the wires extended to Maidenhead/Reading/Didcot the 387s took over from the Turbos on the stoppers before TfL arrived with the 345s.
(*bar Hanwell which IIRC was mostly served by the Heathrow Connect 360s)
baldyman26
Member
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The 777s are a good example of how not to do it !
Phatcontroller
Member
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- 23
More regional than metro but one of the biggest improvements has to be 755/745 in Greater Anglia. I recall grossly overcrowded 156 with passengers unable to board, bus relief services between Ipswich and Woodbridge and no air con. Replace that with a three or four car 755, good seats, level boarding and a top grade interior and air con. Transformational. The 745 also makes a great commuter train from the likes of Colchester.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They are generally yes, but what they have delivered is unassisted wheelchair accessibility to every station on Merseyrail other than the ones where the platforms cannot be reached in one (there are a few). That's pretty high impact. Due to some very poor design decisions the Liz does not and cannot ever have that.
xotGD
Established Member
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- 7,908
Yes. Used to often be my train home. But it wasn't wedged, and I always had a seat.
RUK
Member
One that hasn’t been mentioned yet - the introduction of the Class 357s on the London, Tilbury and Southend Railway line, which used to be called “The Misery Line” before that.
quantinghome
Established Member
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- 2,921
Surely the replacement of the extremely old slam-door stock with Electrostars on the LTS 'misery' line.
EDIT - RUK you beat me to it!
EDIT - RUK you beat me to it!
xotGD
Established Member
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- 7,908
Take a step back - electrification of the Cross City Line.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Greater Anglia 755s replacing the 153/156/170s on the rural routes
brad465
Veteran Member
Scotrail 385s on the Edinburgh-Glasgow corridor providing more coaches and an EMU service, which presumably also helped cascade 170s to strengthen DMU routes.
LittleRedTrain
Member
Definitely agree with the replacement of 165/166s on the GWML with 387s, a step change in quality.
Just a shame they didn't do the job properly so they could run through to Oxford, Henley and Marlow.
Replacement of slam door EMUs on the Southern region was definitely a major step up in terms of comfort, not to mention safety, but I suspect a lot of commuters missed the freedom to jump off the moment the train hit the platform, and board until the very last minute.
Just a shame they didn't do the job properly so they could run through to Oxford, Henley and Marlow.
Replacement of slam door EMUs on the Southern region was definitely a major step up in terms of comfort, not to mention safety, but I suspect a lot of commuters missed the freedom to jump off the moment the train hit the platform, and board until the very last minute.