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Amaranthe said:

Bearing in mind that on the same day I purchased £135.40 worth of tickets from Trainsplit , what if they had done the same?

It has put me out of pocket as I've had to make an extra payment from my bank to my credit card just to cover a payment due out on it.

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Depends on your personal circumstances but mine has a credit limit of £6K and I have £1500 on it, and that's unusually high for me. Most people have a limit well in excess of what they're likely to use (as the idea of it is to be able to make occasional high value purchases that way rather than run close to it all the time), and indeed getting too close to it can result in a poor credit score. Thus to most credit card users it's not a huge issue, which is why it's not really a priority to properly fix it. No doubt the banking industry will transfer to an immediate settlement setup at some point though, as they have moving from BACS to Faster Payments.

More of a problem on a debit card, but only if you don't have the option of an overdraft or are maxed out on it. While most banks show an authorisation as a debit as it makes managing money easier, it's not really a debit and so you wouldn't be charged a fee for going "overdrawn" from one as you're not actually overdrawn. Only if/when it actually claimed would it count as a proper debit.

The same issue arises when self service petrol pump authorisations don't correctly reset to the amount of fuel purchased, which happens occasionally - so people close to the wire are generally advised to buy at a staffed forecourt and pay once fuelled.

Bletchleyite said:

Depends on your personal circumstances but mine has a credit limit of £6K and I have £1500 on it, and that's unusually high for me. Most people have a limit well in excess of what they're likely to use (as the idea of it is to be able to make occasional high value purchases that way rather than run close to it all the time), and indeed getting too close to it can result in a poor credit score. Thus to most credit card users it's not a huge issue, which is why it's not really a priority to properly fix it. No doubt the banking industry will transfer to an immediate settlement setup at some point though, as they have moving from BACS to Faster Payments.

More of a problem on a debit card, but only if you don't have the option of an overdraft or are maxed out on it. While most banks show an authorisation as a debit as it makes managing money easier, it's not really a debit and so you wouldn't be charged a fee for going "overdrawn" from one as you're not actually overdrawn. Only if/when it actually claimed would it count as a proper debit.

The same issue arises when self service petrol pump authorisations don't correctly reset to the amount of fuel purchased, which happens occasionally - so people close to the wire are generally advised to buy at a staffed forecourt and pay once fuelled.

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Well I didn't really want to disclose my financial status but since you've asked this card has a £200 credit limit and has a current available balance of £13.87 when it should actually be £37.37. I had a 29.99 payment due today on the credit card which I've had to send money from my bank to cover which has left my bank account at pretty much zero.

I have had to explain the importance of this to some people at Raileasy.

Not everyone has access to thousands of pounds of credit; dangling authorisations and holding onto pending transactions for longer than strictly necessary are a massive problem for people with limited or no access to credit.

As a software engineer, it is your job to consider as many prospective users as you can and their different backgrounds, and build something that is as inclusive as possible. Sometimes this requires more engineering effort to get right, but this stuff matters.

The TrainSplit implementation still isn't perfect and I've probably been the biggest critic of it internally (further improvements hopefully coming in the next couple of weeks).

Bletchleyite said:

Depends on your personal circumstances but mine has a credit limit of £6K and I have £1500 on it, and that's unusually high for me. Most people have a limit well in excess of what they're likely to use (as the idea of it is to be able to make occasional high value purchases that way rather than run close to it all the time), and indeed getting too close to it can result in a poor credit score. Thus to most credit card users it's not a huge issue, which is why it's not really a priority to properly fix it. No doubt the banking industry will transfer to an immediate settlement setup at some point though, as they have moving from BACS to Faster Payments.

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I appreciate many of us are fortunate to have credit limits equal to or even multiple times our monthly income, but there's an incredible number of people in the UK who don't. Many people with either very limited, or poor, credit or work history, get very low credit limits on cards with very high interest rates. Being out of pocket (whether from a credit card limit or from a current account balance) to the tune of a hundred quid can make a big difference to a lot of people.

The way Avanti are processing payments isn't necessary, even though it is the way very many merchants operate, including other rail ticket retailers.

Bletchleyite said:

The same issue arises when self service petrol pump authorisations don't correctly reset to the amount of fuel purchased, which happens occasionally - so people close to the wire are generally advised to buy at a staffed forecourt and pay once fuelled.

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As an aside, pay-by-pump at petrol stations has been mentioned a few times in this thread. Automated fuel dispending (AFD) actually works in a different way. To give one simple difference - with AFD, the garage may request a pre-auth of say £130 (the max at the moment), and the issuer may reply saying no, but you can have £60. Instead of auth request -> auth response -> presentment, AFD typically goes auth request -> auth response -> auth advice -> auth response -> presentment.

Amaranthe said:

Well I didn't really want to disclose my financial status...

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Sorry, the intention was not to pressure you to do that in such detail.

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Adam Williams said:

I have had to explain the importance of this to some people at Raileasy.

Not everyone has access to thousands of pounds of credit; dangling authorisations and holding onto pending transactions for longer than strictly necessary are a massive problem for people with limited or no access to credit.

As a software engineer, it is your job to consider as many prospective users as you can and their different backgrounds, and build something that is as inclusive as possible. Sometimes this requires more engineering effort to get right, but this stuff matters.

The TrainSplit implementation still isn't perfect and I've probably been the biggest critic of it internally (further improvements hopefully coming in the next couple of weeks).

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It is something the banks could make a lot easier to be honest. We really should be progressing towards authorisation and settlement occurring within seconds of each other. (They should never be the same thing, as you always want to be able to do "start transaction", "check the order fully worked e.g. the ticket was issued", "commit transaction" just as you would with a database).

Bletchleyite said:

you always want to be able to do "start transaction", "check the order fully worked e.g. the ticket was issued"

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Many businesses like an element of "check the money is available" as well!

Haywain said:

Many businesses like an element of "check the money is available" as well!

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Yeah, that was implicit in "start". We're talking completion of the transaction (and any refund) within a couple of minutes, though, not a week.

yorkie said:

Well, I'd certainly put in a complaint to Avanti, and ask if they will consider some compensation. It's not really about interest, but overall it's an awful customer experience and it's totally unacceptable to cancel bookings in this manner.

Please do let us know how you get on. (I've also given Avanti a nudge to do something to help you; whether it'll make a difference or not, I don't know...)

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As a reminder of what this is about. Back in August I bought a ticket on the Avanti site, and was issued a ticket collection reference number. However, when I went to collect the ticket, I found that Avanti had cancelled the ticket. The email stated that they would immediately refund my payment. It also said I should try again later, which I did a couple of hours later, only for the exact same thing to happen again. After several days had passed with no sign of the promised refunds, I complained, only to be told that "immediately" in Avanti-speak meant 5-10 working days, i.e. nearly three weeks taking into account the bank holiday.

Well, I have an update of sorts. I waited the 10 working days, and with no sign of any refund, I complained again.

This time I was told that due to the sums involved, the refunds had needed to be actioned, and apparently nobody had bothered to do it (so much for them issuing them "immediately"). I was told that the refunds would be reissued, but that I would need to wait ANOTHER 5-10 working days. And they were unable to provide compensation for the awful customer service.

So, another 10 working days later, do you think I have got my refunds? Of course not. This is Avanti we are talking about. They really couldn't care any less for their customers.

I am giving them one last chance to get this sorted, and provide some form of compensation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Friday at 11:53 ==

Bletchleyite said:

Only if you live in about 1995. The rest of us would check our online accounts, see that the refund had arrived prior to the monthly payment date, and know that we didn't need to include that in the monthly payment because the refund already settled that transaction.

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Except that the refunds didn't arrive before the monthly payment date. And they won't arrive before the next one either. And my payments are taken automatically to clear the balance, so I will now be out of pocket for two months.

going on as a refund that late also presumes you'll be making transactions to that value on your card in that statement period, otherwise it'll just sit there as credit (and need requested back from the issuer).

I'd be looking for a bit of compensation from Avanti by this point in the game.