Steam trams and tram engines

Comments in the long distance shunter thread about GER tram engines on the main line prompt a question. Does anyone know when and where steam trams were last used for revenue-earning passenger traffic in the UK? Most steam tram systems were converted to electricity at some stage, though the Wolverton and Stony Stratford was never upgraded by the LNWR/LMS. Tram engines appear to have lasted rather longer on freight workings of course - between Wisbech and Upwell for instance.

Oh, before anyone starts, Toby's escapades on the Isle of Sodor don't count!

I believe Rawtenstall Corporation was the last to operate steam trams in 1909 when it fully converted to electric traction. It had taken over the privately owned Rossendale system the year before. There were of course other 'tramways' but they were really light railways with conventional locos such as the Wantage and the Rye and Camber. The Swansea and Mumbles (always a Railway!) converted to electric traction in 1929.

Not in the U.K., but a late survivor was the Dublin and Blessington in Ireland which closed at the end of 1932.

Sir Felix Pole said:

I believe Rawtenstall Corporation was the last to operate steam trams in 1909 when it fully converted to electric traction.

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The Wolverton and Stony Stratford Tramway mentioned in the OP was a street running tram line that was taken over by the LNWR when the original operator went bust in 1889, as it was the only way to get workers to their carriage works. It operated steam tram engines pulling double deck tramcars. It operated until May 1926 when the staff refused to break the General Strike, and the LMS took the opportunity to close it (it was already facing declining passenger numbers due to competition from buses).

The Portstewart Tramway (in Northern Ireland, so UK), which had been taken over Belfast & Northern Counties Railway, so later MR(NCC) and LMSR(NCC), lasted until 30 January 1926.

The Wisbech and Upwell was, I believe, legally a tramway (the 1870 Tramway Act applied to it), although it appeared to be a Light Railway - it predated the Light Railway Act of1896: passenger services lasted until the beginning of 1928, freight services were steam operated into the early 1950s There were I think some other lines in the same situation, including the Glyn Valley Tramway, horse and gravity worked until steam took over in 1888 - passenger services lasted until 1933, the line closed completely in 1936; and the Wantage Tramway - passenger services until 1925, goods until 1945. And then you have the Weymouth Quay (or Harbour) Tramway, steam worked into the 1960s - but essentially as a railway.

So the answer to the OP's question is dependent on where you draw the line between a tramway and a (light) railway - applying the duck test (does it look like a tramway?), the Wolverton and Stony Stratford, closed May 1926, a more legal based test would point to the GVT or Weymouth Quay.

etr221 said:

......So the answer to the OP's question is dependent on where you draw the line between a tramway and a (light) railway - applying the duck test (does it look like a tramway?), the Wolverton and Stony Stratford, closed May 1926, a more legal based test would point to the GVT or Weymouth Quay.

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But the Weymouth Quay line didn't use Steam Tram engines as such - they were ordinary locos, both steam and later diesel. They were 'escorted' through the town by BR employees, mainly to see that cars were not obstructing progress and to warn road traffic. On the couple of occasions I saw it in use there was also a police presence re mis-parked cars!

John Webb said:

But the Weymouth Quay line didn't use Steam Tram engines as such - they were ordinary locos, both steam and later diesel. They were 'escorted' through the town by BR employees, mainly to see that cars were not obstructing progress and to warn road traffic. On the couple of occasions I saw it in use there was also a police presence re mis-parked cars!

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In my time (1970's) there was always a Police car/van preceding all daytime trains in Summer, and sometimes in Winter, as well as, at least, two railway employees on foot, each carrying a flag. They, and sometimes the policeman, were good at "bouncing" cars that were 'slightly over the line' out of the way. Tow-truck for the rest.

I was there in 1963:

Muddying the waters further, many electric street tramways were built under Light Railway Orders.
The Rye & Camber Tramway, previously mentioned, was built on land acquired by agreement and didn't cross any public roads, and as far as I know had no specific legal powers. It was basically a narrow gauge railway with no characteristics of a tramway.
Then there was the Hundred of Manhood and Selsey Tramway, a standard-gauge light railway, which was later the subject of a LRO as the West Sussex Railway.

One was used at Beyer-Peacock works as a shunter for many years. It’s now at Crich restored as John Bull

Weymouth, 3rd July 1978:

Many thanks to all for the input so far. Much appreciated.

Rescars said:

Comments in the long distance shunter thread about GER tram engines on the main line prompt a question. Does anyone know when and where steam trams were last used for revenue-earning passenger traffic in the UK? Most steam tram systems were converted to electricity at some stage, though the Wolverton and Stony Stratford was never upgraded by the LNWR/LMS. Tram engines appear to have lasted rather longer on freight workings of course - between Wisbech and Upwell for instance.

Oh, before anyone starts, Toby's escapades on the Isle of Sodor don't count!

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On a slight tangent when was the last time a steam tram ran on public non preserved tram infastructure in the UK?

jumble said:

On a slight tangent when was the last time a steam tram ran on public non preserved tram infastructure in the UK?

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The Wisbech and Upwell was apparently converted to diesel haulage in 1952 and the last tram engine scrapped in 1955. Did steam on Yarmouth Quay last longer?

Rescars said:

The Wisbech and Upwell was apparently converted to diesel haulage in 1952 and the last tram engine scrapped in 1955. Did steam on Yarmouth Quay last longer?

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Information from Brian haresnapes Fleet Survey Part 7
The first diesel tram locos (Drewry - later class 04) Nos 11100-11103, later D22xx) went to the Wisbech and Upwell and to Ipswich docks
A smaller, 0-4-0 Hunslet type (11500-11502, later D295x) went new to Ipswich in 1954. (They were similar in appearance to the Class 05 0-6-0, but shorter, and had the same 153hp engine as the Barclay Class 01). Did they displace the Drewrys to Yarmouth?

However, Wikipedia says that the Drewry shunters first went to Wisbech and Yarmouth, not Ispwich, and a further two (11111 and 11113) were later adapted with cowcatcher and skirts for Ipswich

Additional - yet another source says that the Hunslets started life at Ipswich but one spent some time at Great Yarmouth and later at Goole. No dates given unfortunatekly