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I had to crawl on my hands and knees to get off train, says disabled woman

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Horizon22

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GWR at Paddington from my experience were *usually* good and well-versed in providing assistance. The one thing that baffles me too is a staff member telling her to buy a ticket to go back to Bath? When the railway has made an absolute pig's ear of something like this the last thing you do is tell someone they need to pay more (on top of being delayed).

I will also refute any claims from anyone that staff "don't care". There will always be a small minority that are clearly not in the right line of work, but by and large, they very much do care.

Don't Network Rail run the dedicated assistance team at Paddington? Again another party to go through.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

This does seem to be where it all fell apart. That information never reached the necessary person(s) at Bath. In addition surely the onboard staff knew about the short platform at Bath?

But the staff at Bath must have known if they were planning to meet them there and help them alight?
 
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bluenoxid

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Network Rail received planning consent for extending this platform in late August.

See BathNES planning portal, application reference 26/01549/LBA

I’m not sure that it will rectify the issue completely. However, it looks like they will create a combined stop board following implementation so trains could be moved forwards (I will let those with more knowledge of operations advise if that is feasible) if required because a person needs to leave the rear vehicle of the rear set that will sit off the end of the London end of the platform.
 

bramling

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To be fair, I don’t really see why the passenger or relatives should be having to make their own arrangements, especially when having been placed on the train with the blessing of staff (if I have understood correctly).

I can understand why moving the train would be a problem, however it’s a bit unclear why GWR could not offer to continue to Bristol and then have a taxi waiting to continue to the final destination.
 

Segedunum

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Don't Network Rail run the dedicated assistance team at Paddington? Again another party to go through.
Yes apologies you're correct of course - it will have been Network Rail involved here too.

Again like I say - I found them to be pretty responsive and good with most things compared to many other stations. But there's been a major breakdown in communication somewhere along the line here.
 

43096

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If it was a 10 car then the front set may not have a guard, and only a Lead Host, who may not have that level of route knowledge.
Of course, back in the day the driver would have stopped with the front part on the platform to let the wheelchair off and then drawn forward to the normal stopping point. What are the odds that this is all too difficult on the modern railway as the "computer says no".
 

Swedenorer

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It is not actually a lengthy diversion at all. Or of course they could just wait an hour. The attached map is at peak rush hour as well, with it taking an hour to get to Temple Meads from Bath Spa station. Total is 19 minutes extra driving.

As a parent I cannot fathom the actions of her parents or grandparents, and it is almost certainly the case we don't have the full story here. Which isn't a way of saying it might be their fault, I am bemoaning the journalism!
Drive at and try.
 

mikeb42

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Do staff rely on the public displays or at least the underlying data they present re formations?

If so, one factor multiplying confusion may have been that 10 car formations on this route are often backwards/jumbled up/random/delete-as-appropriate.

At the same time the formation displays presented to passengers for all of 5/9/10 car formations are frequently wrong. Relying on them could lead to a false belief at the station that all will be well with the positioning of coach L (or whatever).

Neither a full explanation nor an excuse but possibility part of the shambles. Merely a (further) irritant for most regular users but may have had more serious consequences in this case.
 

Horizon22

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Yes apologies you're correct of course - it will have been Network Rail involved here too.

Again like I say - I found them to be pretty responsive and good with most things compared to many other stations. But there's been a major breakdown in communication somewhere along the line here.

Perhaps they had set the assistance for one set of doors/coach, but had to change at the last minute when the team turned up to the train and found another space occupied, which wasn't then passed on. There's a few stages at which communication may have broken down, the exact one of which we'll probably never know here.
 

mikeb42

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Drive at and try.
At morning or evening peak, yes, it's terrible. The rest of the time, not really. Sometimes you'd be better off going up the A46, along the M4 and back down the M32 than the direct route.

More generally, Bath must be one of the few places that's  worse to try and drive in and out of or to park than Bristol. General advice would be - don't bother, ever.

Source: Decades of working in offices in the centre of both Bristol and Bath, so thousands of journeys, split 80:20 between car:train.

Thing is, the relatives may not know any of this, we simply don't know. Many people who don't travel much have a concept (or lack of) of UK geography that's hard to comprehend for people who hang around in places like this. Or they just opted for this for their own private reasons.

Chippenham would be a much better option if you're picking someone up by car to go to S Wales, on average it'll be considerably quicker and much less hassle for all sorts of reasons. Who's going to know that other than very experienced travellers along this route though?

The salient point is that GWR clearly messed this one up comprehensively.
 

a_c_skinner

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These events with passengers of limited mobility happen from time to time. They always (ALWAYS) come over dreadfully in the media.

No one expects every trip to be perfect.

I assume the railway has people on call to deal with events much worse than this so sorting this is small potatoes.

This is one circumstance where the reputational damage is so bad staff need to be instructed to spare no effort short of imperilling safety to deal with the disabled passenger properly. In this case to contact whoever is on call to arrange the right taxi from where the passenger alights to where they were going. Heedless of the cost, lost time or pretty much anything. The media coverage always uses the word "crawl".
 

bramling

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These events with passengers of limited mobility happen from time to time. They always (ALWAYS) come over dreadfully in the media.

No one expects every trip to be perfect.

I assume the railway has people on call to deal with events much worse than this so sorting this is small potatoes.

This is one circumstance where the reputational damage is so bad staff need to be instructed to spare no effort short of imperilling safety to deal with the disabled passenger properly. In this case to contact whoever is on call to arrange the right taxi from where the passenger alights to where they were going. Heedless of the cost, lost time or pretty much anything. The media coverage always uses the word "crawl".

Whichever way one looks at it, it is bad that you have someone who cannot alight at their required stop, and then the railway looks at them as if it’s somehow their fault that the system has messed up.

Either the industry should get it right, or be honest and say we cannot accommodate. Note that I’m not advocating the latter, but this is preferable to offering something the industry repeatedly fails to get right.

Part of the problem comes down to training levels for station staff. This goes in the same box as station staff hiding during disruption, which is another consequence of minimal training.
 

a_c_skinner

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Whichever way one looks at it, it is bad that you have someone who cannot alight at their required stop, and then the railway looks at them as if it’s somehow their fault that the system has messed up.

Either the industry should get it right, or be honest and say we cannot accommodate. Note that I’m not advocating the latter, but this is preferable to offering something the industry repeatedly fails to get right.

Part of the problem comes down to training levels for station staff. This goes in the same box as station staff hiding during disruption, which is another consequence of minimal training.
Yes, this. Someone who knows there has been an error but is helped into a specially adapted taxi at the next stop, has an apology and is whisked away to their proper stop is different from this. A friend of mine had a dreadful trip from London to Newcastle. No ones fault but he remembers the effort made to get him home (finding a set and crew that could go up the Durham Coast) rather than the modest cock up that delayed his train until the main line was closed for engineering. The reputational damage is such that someone very senior should be on the phone for the taxi, the extra stop, the delay - whatever is needed.
 

Rail2002

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A wheelchair user was left in tears as she crawled on her "hands and knees" through a train after being told a ramp could not be used to help her off.

Phoebe Tesoriere, 24, who lived in Caerphilly at the time, was on a Great Western Railway (GWR) train from London Paddington to Bath Spa when it happened.

Her family spoke to the assistance desk and were taken to the only designated wheelchair space on the train. Phoebe said she was assured a ramp and assistance would be waiting, but was told she was in a carriage beyond the platform and could not get off.

GWR said it was "really sorry" and admitted "we let her down, both when we helped her board and at several points during her journey".

Former Cardiff University student Phoebe, who has hereditary spastic paraplegia, external which causes weakness and stiffness in the leg muscles, said: "My mum specifically asked if a ramp and assistance would be waiting at Bath Spa. We were assured it would be."

While on the train, staff checked which station she would be getting off at numerous times during the incident in December 2025, she added.

Despite this, Phoebe was not told the carriage she was directed to would stop beyond the platform, leaving her unable to use a ramp to get off.


And GWR haven't even got their act together to pay the agreed compensation
It's not acceptable. Kudos to GWR for accepting responsibility though. What's not stated is if it was a double IET or singular. Surely Bath Spa can accommodate 5 carriages? Anyway, short platforms are relatively rare and I can see how an oversight would occur. Perhaps this could be remedied with a notice to remind assistance staff of short platforms on internal systems. All customers deserve dignity and having to crawl to get off the train is not acceptable. I do think that there are improvements to be made with Passenger Assistance. There is a man called Doug Paulley who highlights assistance failures on his YouTube channel. Often it's caused by a break down in communication. Only on Sunday, I helped an infirm lady off a train when assistance didn't show.

I hope that GWR offer to refund her for the ticket that she had to purchase to get back from Bristol. The question arises though as to why she didn't explain to staff at Temple Meads what had happened, they'd surely have endorsed her ticket to get to Bath, given the circumstances.
 

pokemonsuper9

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What's not stated is if it was a double IET or singular. Surely Bath Spa can accommodate 5 carriages?
The vast majority of services between Paddington and Bath Spa are formed of 9 carriage trains, so single units, but still too long for Bath's Bristol-bound platform.
 

Wolfie

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It is not actually a lengthy diversion at all. Or of course they could just wait an hour. The attached map is at peak rush hour as well, with it taking an hour to get to Temple Meads from Bath Spa station. Total is 19 minutes extra driving.

As a parent I cannot fathom the actions of her parents or grandparents, and it is almost certainly the case we don't have the full story here. Which isn't a way of saying it might be their fault, I am bemoaning the journalism!
As a human being l'm sad to say that l find you attacking her family rather than the absolute heartless incompetence displayed by GWR (the utter moron who suggested that she pay more for an additional ticket should be unemployed now) incomprehensible and disgraceful. It's sadly all too symptomatic of rather too much of the rail industry and it's apologists.
 

Parallel

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If she was at the front of the train and had passed the end of the platform, Bristol likely would’ve been the only option, but what I don’t understand is, if onboard crew knew where she was going, why was she not put in the other wheelchair space if that was platformed (9 and 10 car IET formations have two accessible areas), and if she couldn’t for whatever reason, why couldn’t they move her at Chippenham (or Swindon if the same door isn’t platformed at Chippenham) to the vestibule of another coach? Shocking incompetence if so, with no attempt to find a solution.

10 coach IETs at Bath Spa are not rare and Bath is a heavily used station, so there must be a policy in place, so why was it not followed?
 

bluenoxid

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I hope that GWR offer to refund her for the ticket that she had to purchase to get back from Bristol. The question arises though as to why she didn't explain to staff at Temple Meads what had happened, they'd surely have endorsed her ticket to get to Bath, given the circumstances.
My impression is that Phoebe crawled off the train whilst at Bath Spa and did not travel to Bristol. I have a feeling that the impression that they would have to pay for the journey back from Bristol to Bath influenced that decision making.
 

Rail2002

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My impression is that Phoebe crawled off the train whilst at Bath Spa and did not travel to Bristol. I have a feeling that the impression that they would have to pay for the journey back from Bristol to Bath influenced that decision making.
That would certainly explain why GWR haven't paid anything to her.
 

bluenoxid

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GWR apparently agreed to compensation in May (because the customer experience was poor) and requested her bank details. They still haven’t paid her. They have not responded to her since June. It’s October. Three full months have passed since June.
 

pedr

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What are the reasons why the train couldn’t be moved backwards so that there was a door that could allow the ramp to be used?

Clearly there are reasons that would be inconvenient, expensive, cause further/knock-on delays etc, but are there reasons which would prevent it happening if GWR control decided it should?
 

Djgr

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It's sadly all too symptomatic of rather too much of the rail industry and its apologists.
I think many on here, who are not currently in the rail industry, try to give it the benefit of the doubt.

However, events like this do suggest that a massive shakeup is required to wake it up to the real world.
 

Parallel

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What are the reasons why the train couldn’t be moved backwards so that there was a door that could allow the ramp to be used?

Clearly there are reasons that would be inconvenient, expensive, cause further/knock-on delays etc, but are there reasons which would prevent it happening if GWR control decided it should?
Bath is on a reasonably sharp curve, so I wonder if ‘moving backwards’ isn’t an acceptable method of work there, particularly if coaches are off the end of the platform too.
 

AlterEgo

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As a human being l'm sad to say that l find you attacking her family rather than the absolute heartless incompetence displayed by GWR (the utter moron who suggested that she pay more for an additional ticket should be unemployed now) incomprehensible and disgraceful. It's sadly all too symptomatic of rather too much of the rail industry and it's apologists.
Yes, it is me, the well known rail industry apologist (!) with all the posts in this thread criticising GWR's incompetence and their extended time in closing out the investigation. I've even criticised the rolling stock order. What else would you like?

Nobody is here to defend the TOC, who have rightly apologised and compensated the complainant (we assume, they dragged their heels over that apparently).

If you read the post you quoted to the end I'm not blaming the family. I'm asking why the obvious question isn't in the story - why couldn't they just do those things? There might be a perfectly good reason, and I dare say a much better reason than the ones invented by people in this thread (namely I wouldn't pick my granddaughter up in Bristol to save her this inhumane inexperience because the road is busy, and also what if it costs £9 to drive my old car in Bristol?).

Nonetheless on a personal level I am aghast at the idea one day I could ever watch my daughter have to cry and crawl like a dog off a train in this circumstance, both because it represents a gross failing on the part of the company and also because if it were me, I would feel like I'd failed my kid. I can't imagine any circumstance where I don't simply say we'll stay on the train and sort it at Bristol, so I'd really have liked to know what it was. I'd be very upset watching my daughter go through the experience and I wouldn't let it happen.

I expect if it was your blind father and you were travelling with him you would feel the same way.

That would certainly explain why GWR haven't paid anything to her.
No, the complainant is - quife rightly - being compensated with money for their experience. It's not a refund of fares.

I think many on here, who are not currently in the rail industry, try to give it the benefit of the doubt.

However, events like this do suggest that a massive shakeup is required to wake it up to the real world.
The key issue as @bramling has identified is staff quality and training. They're also spread far too thinly and a lot of passenger assist stuff is attention to detail. It used to be laborious to book this (I've worked the phone lines doing it!) and there are so many quirks which have yet to be designed out of the network there is significant risk of a failing like the one GWR displayed here. This happens all the time, far too frequently, and it's a grim reflection of our diminishing capacity as a civilisation.
 
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Recessio

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It is not actually a lengthy diversion at all. Or of course they could just wait an hour. The attached map is at peak rush hour as well, with it taking an hour to get to Temple Meads from Bath Spa station. Total is 19 minutes extra driving.

As a parent I cannot fathom the actions of her parents or grandparents, and it is almost certainly the case we don't have the full story here. Which isn't a way of saying it might be their fault, I am bemoaning the journalism!
Bristol and the family is a red herring and a complete distraction from the real issue though, which is a passenger was not able to alight in a dignified manner at Bath Spa. If anybody should have been diverting to Bristol by car, it should have been a taxi booked and paid for by GWR.

I agree with you that the journalism may not be telling the full story of this particular situation , but the fact is it's still irrelevant - if you pay the railway (and pre-book assistance) to get you to your destination, you shouldn't have to be asking family to detour at their expense due to a series of cockups by GWR.

Not a criticism of you @AlterEgo , I just think it's important that we don't lose the wood for the trees - we can get distracted in the fine details of one particular story (that we likely will never hear the full details of from all sides anyway), and end up losing sight of the nation-wide issue of how crap the country's rail system is at accessible travel, and how this keeps happening despite stories like this making headlines.
 

AlterEgo

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Bristol and the family is a red herring and a complete distraction from the real issue though, which is a passenger was not able to alight in a dignified manner at Bath Spa. If anybody should have been diverting to Bristol by car, it should have been a taxi booked and paid for by GWR.
They didn't want to be in Bristol. If it was me on duty I'd have taxied them to Caerphilly, but they'd have had to get to Bristol for that and stayed on the train. Obviously this has been a total mess and it is GWR's fault it was a mess!

I agree with you that the journalism may not be telling the full story of this particular situation , but the fact is it's still irrelevant - if you pay the railway (and pre-book assistance) to get you to your destination, you shouldn't have to be asking family to detour at their expense due to a series of cockups by GWR.
Of course not.

Not a criticism of you @AlterEgo , I just think it's important that we don't lose the wood for the trees - we can get distracted in the fine details of one particular story (that we likely will never hear the full details of from all sides anyway), and end up losing sight of the nation-wide issue of how crap the country's rail system is at accessible travel, and how this keeps happening despite stories like this making headlines.
You will not find a stronger advocate than me. I'm on all of these threads and I used to see all the cock ups happen every day and have to resolve them when I worked in the industry. Very little has changed since my time (10 years ago). But in fairness we aren't effecting any change here, it's just a discussion board and we can say what we like and how we feel.
 

Trothy

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If you read the post you quoted to the end I'm not blaming the family. I'm asking why the obvious question isn't in the story - why couldn't they just do those things? There might be a perfectly good reason, and I dare say a much better reason than the ones invented by people in this thread (namely I wouldn't pick my granddaughter up in Bristol to save her this inhumane inexperience because the road is busy, and also what if it costs £9 to drive my old car in Bristol?

You asked a question to which no-one here is going to know the answer too.

If you met them in person would that be your leading question?

It very much looks and sounds like victim blaming. Maybe that's not your intent, but it's how it came across.
 

Krokodil

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I'm asking why the obvious question isn't in the story - why couldn't they just do those things?
To me the obvious question is why not train to Bristol Parkway or all the way through to Newport or Caerphilly? Perhaps they were doing things in Bath as a family first.

But this is all beside the point. It should be considered from the point of view that Bath was her destination - her later road journey to Caerphilly is irrelevant. She wanted to get off at Bath, yet she could not do so.
 
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