Last train Stockport - Euston completely full on Saturday 26/09/2026

I was returning from a day in southern Manchester yesterday and tried to catch the 20:24 from Stockport to Euston (1A85 20:14 from Piccadilly - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W33579/2026-09-26/detailed#allox_id=0) - the last train of the evening.

The train was extremely busy - it seemed a large number of people were returning from an evangelical Christian event in Manchester. After walking down the train and seeing all the coaches and vestibules full of standing passengers my wife and I managed to squeeze into the vestibule of carriage K with more than 10 other standing passengers. The train stood on the platform at Stockport for several minutes with an announcement that the train in front had broken down.

An argument broke out between passengers about seat reservations and after 15 minutes we decided to get off to check the (delayed) 20:33 to Birmingham instead (considering we could at least get as far as Birmingham or Northampton and then consider alternative transport). The Birmingham train was also completely full.

We walked back to the Euston train - more passengers had joined and we couldn't find a way to squeeze on without blocking the doors. We walked all the way back down to coach A and found every vestibule equally blocked with a continuous line of passengers standing all down the corridors. As someone who commutes part-time on the tube it was the kind of situation where even on a tube train you would accept there was no space to get on and wait for the next. It's the worst crowding I've seen on a train on the WCML (even during disruption I can't remember anything this bad). We accepted defeat. We needed to be back in London for an appointment the following morning so we bit the bullet and paid £280 for a minicab to London.

We visit relatives in Manchester a few times a year, but we'd never tried to take the last train before. Some questions for anyone with experience...

* Is it common for the last train from Manchester to London to be busy? It looks like the Christian event was probably an infrequent occurrence so I doubt full and standing happens often, but is seeing most/all seats taken on the last train a common situation?

* If we'd asked staff at Stockport station for help with alternatives to get back to London, is there anything realistically they would have done? I can't imagine any alternatives given this was the last train. My wife and I were not vulnerable in any way - and we had the means to pay for a minicab. But for anyone who this was not the case it would have been a difficult situation.

* I don't think there's any Delay Repay (or similar) due - but am I wrong? We had Off Peak Return tickets. Although the train departed Stockport 32mins late (according to RTT), it made up some time after Milton Keynes and arrived in Euston 18mins late.

itfcfan said:

* Is it common for the last train from Manchester to London to be busy? It looks like the Christian event was probably an infrequent occurrence so I doubt full and standing happens often, but is seeing most/all seats taken on the last train a common situation?

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Not common on that route, but absolutely is on others. The last trains out of Paddington can be exceptionally busy, particularly on Saturdays and especially in the summer. GWR even put up signs warning to expect it. The difference here though is that most people travelling are well used to it and will make room without arguing for others to cram into every last bit of space. I’ve seen people sitting in luggage racks, bike racks, even the floor of the big accessible toilets… but never people left behind. I don’t want to stereotype, but the customers you describe are perhaps less likely to have reacted in quite the same way. The GWR late-night services tend to be quite jolly in their own way, nowhere near as grim as you might think from the above description (plus it’s only that bad until Reading).

itfcfan said:

* Is it common for the last train from Manchester to London to be busy? It looks like the Christian event was probably an infrequent occurrence so I doubt full and standing happens often, but is seeing most/all seats taken on the last train a common situation?

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No. Indeed, standing loads on Avanti services are *extremely* rare and only really occur between MKC-Euston and vice versa at commuter times, during disruption and for major events (the latter in this case). I cannot remember the last time I didn't get a seat on an Avanti service. Most of the time I get a double seat to myself.

itfcfan said:

* If we'd asked staff at Stockport station for help with alternatives to get back to London, is there anything realistically they would have done? I can't imagine any alternatives given this was the last train. My wife and I were not vulnerable in any way - and we had the means to pay for a minicab. But for anyone who this was not the case it would have been a difficult situation.

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I would have expected them to arrange a taxi or other alternative transport at the railway's cost.

itfcfan said:

* I don't think there's any Delay Repay (or similar) due - but am I wrong? We had Off Peak Return tickets. Although the train departed Stockport 32mins late (according to RTT), it made up some time after Milton Keynes and arrived in Euston 18mins late.

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Delay Repay is not due because you did not travel (it would have been if e.g. you'd gone on the first train the next day, as being physically unable to board counts as a cancellation in this regard). However, if you were physically unable to board I would say a refund for that leg would be due from the retailer, as in effect the train was cancelled and you abandoned the journey (by not leaving the origin; going back to it being the other way to become eligible to that if the disruption is part way).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2026 ==

mickey said:

Not common on that route, but absolutely is on others. The last trains out of Paddington can be exceptionally busy, particularly on Saturdays and especially in the summer. GWR even put up signs warning to expect it. The difference here though is that most people travelling are well used to it and will make room without arguing for others to cram into every last bit of space. I’ve seen people sitting in luggage racks, bike racks, even the floor of the big accessible toilets… but never people left behind. I don’t want to stereotype, but the customers you describe are perhaps less likely to have reacted in quite the same way. The GWR late-night services tend to be quite jolly in their own way, nowhere near as grim as you might think from the above description (plus it’s only that bad until Reading).

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Reading is a very specific issue to GWR and one that doesn't have a direct analogy on the WCML. MKC has plenty of passengers but nothing like the volumes Reading does.

If there was physically no space on the train, I feel then it'd be the same as last service canceled, I.E travel to the furthest destination you can (in this case Birmingham, if not then stoke/Crewe and speak to staff there for onwards travel arrangements.

@itfcfan. Must have been the Nigerian Pastor Jerry Eze's NSPPD (= New Season Prophetic Prayers and Declarations) conference event at Old Trafford. Reportedly 74,000 there. Good chance that several trains from or via Manchester Piccadilly were all rammed after this finished. Think you'd have had to have left Stockport on the delayed 1939 TfW (left at 1951) to have had any chance of catching the last alternative Avanti service to London Euston (from Glasgow Central) which left Crewe on time at 2044. The 1939 from Stockport was only a 3 car TfW service for Cardiff Central so could well have been just as busy as several other trains given it left Manchester Piccadilly several minutes down.

mickey said:

Not common on that route, but absolutely is on others. The last trains out of Paddington can be exceptionally busy, particularly on Saturdays and especially in the summer. GWR even put up signs warning to expect it. The difference here though is that most people travelling are well used to it and will make room without arguing for others to cram into every last bit of space. I’ve seen people sitting in luggage racks, bike racks, even the floor of the big accessible toilets… but never people left behind. I don’t want to stereotype, but the customers you describe are perhaps less likely to have reacted in quite the same way. The GWR late-night services tend to be quite jolly in their own way, nowhere near as grim as you might think from the above description (plus it’s only that bad until Reading).

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One would have thought that if this is a regular occurrence GWR might have considered putting on an additional layer train to spread the load!

Bletchleyite said:

No. Indeed, standing loads on Avanti services are *extremely* rare and only really occur between MKC-Euston and vice versa at commuter times, during disruption and for major events (the latter in this case). I cannot remember the last time I didn't get a seat on an Avanti service. Most of the time I get a double seat to myself.

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Maybe try and commute to / from the West Midlands (or further) to Euston for a bit and then re-evaluate this post Extremely rare didn't half make me chuckle!

Jimini said:

Maybe try and commute to / from the West Midlands (or further) to Euston for a bit and then re-evaluate this post Extremely rare didn't half make me chuckle!

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Which specific trains carry large standing loads?

Bletchleyite said:

Which specific trains carry large standing loads?

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Nice try. You said, and I quote:

Bletchleyite said:

Most of the time I get a double seat to myself.

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Before we moved to Reading a couple of years ago, my wife and I regularly had to stand on services out of Euston back to Coventry in the evening peak. Nothing unusual in that. It's a key commuter route and you expect it to be busy at certain times of the day.

How you "get a double seat to myself" seems a little far-fetched.

Bletchleyite said:

Which specific trains carry large standing loads?

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Most commonly (for me) when the one of the 3tph trains from Birmingham to Euston which comes through from Glasgow is sufficiently delayed further north, just by 20 minutes, that it is effectively cancelled for those from Birmingham onwards as the next service picks up two trainloads

lowe1409 said:

If there was physically no space on the train, I feel then it'd be the same as last service canceled, I.E travel to the furthest destination you can (in this case Birmingham, if not then stoke/Crewe and speak to staff there for onwards travel arrangements.

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You should always speak to staff at the origin station first. If Avanti had arranged an alternative (coach for example direct from Stockport) it may not stop at Birmingham/Crewe/Stoke and onward travel may be refused of you go off your own back to another station.

canary fan said:

One would have thought that if this is a regular occurrence GWR might have considered putting on an additional layer train to spread the load!

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Is there an emoji for hollow laughter?

What they actually routinely do is put a 5 coach half-excuse for a train on some of these services instead, in full knowledge of the consequences. The 2249 Swansea in particular is frequently absolutely rammed and a quite disgusting excuse for a service. The 2203 Bristol is another frequent 5 coach disgrace on wheels.

Both can frequently be absolutely crush loaded as far as Reading but continue to be far too full to be a decent travelling environment as far west as Swindon.

To answer one of the OP's questions: If it is physically impossible to board the last train to your destination the railway is obliged to pay for a taxi or accommodation as necessary. The alternative is that they're stranding you overnight by failing to provide a viable journey by any other means and thus breaching the contract they've entered into with you by selling you a ticket.

In the same situation I have had GWR pay for taxis from London to Bristol a few times over the years when the 2332 (the last train) has been physically impossible to board.

You may need to be forcefully insistent and speak to someone with sufficient authority to get this conceded at the time. In the particular case of Paddington, this isn't usually an issue as there's always a duty station manager who can be summoned.

If this situation occurred again I'd be taking footage on my phone of the crowding on the train at each doorway. On one occasion I had a staff member try to make out that I'd actually arrived late for the train and was trying to scam a taxi home out of them. In fact I'd had time to walk all 10 coaches and try to board at every door before walking all the way back to the gateline before it was dispatched. Demanding the station manager be summoned, the copious CCTV footage be checked immediately and the details I'd need to make a formal complaint be provided soon put paid to that, but lesson learned.

If I were the OP I would be making strenuous efforts to reclaim that very large taxi fee from the railway even at this stage.

Edited to add: I also claimed delay repay on top of getting them to pay for a taxi on each occasion this has happened. Usually for a 100% refund as the delay was very substantial. In one instance this took months of argument and complaints before eventual success, but my understanding is you are fully entitled to this also.

Ive used quite a few Avanti trains across the last few weeks, and ive travelled on a few full and standing ones, one was so crush loaded, I went one stop and got off, I wasnt travelling like that, and waited for the next one, so certainly not a rare occurrence.

Sprinter107 said:

Ive used quite a few Avanti trains across the last few weeks, and ive travelled on a few full and standing ones, one was so crush loaded, I went one stop and got off, I wasnt travelling like that, and waited for the next one, so certainly not a rare occurrence.

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Of course, as far as the OP was concerned on Saturday, there wasn't a 'next one' that would have gotten them to London Euston. Northampton (via Crewe and Birmingham New Street) perhaps, but not any further. Good advice upthread by @mikeb42.

I've seen Avanti full and standing ex Manchester whenever there is football on, especially Man Utd as many of their supporters don't actually live in the NW.

Taunton said:

Most commonly (for me) when the one of the 3tph trains from Birmingham to Euston which comes through from Glasgow is sufficiently delayed further north, just by 20 minutes, that it is effectively cancelled for those from Birmingham onwards as the next service picks up two trainloads

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I did to be fair specifically say "except in disruption".

If that late those trains are often sent via the Trent so they reach Euston on time - then they *are* cancelled for Brum.

Bletchleyite said:

I did to be fair specifically say "except in disruption".

If that late those trains are often sent via the Trent so they reach Euston on time - then they *are* cancelled for Brum.

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Personaly, I'd define disruption as something more severe than a 20 minute delay. And if it's a regular occurrence, which the north WCML arguably is, then it needs to be accommodated for.

I have been on a Pendolino (in Virgin days) when the conductor has announced that one particular coat has too many standing passengers and, as a result, the brakes on the train won't release for safety reasons, and asking passengers in that coach to move into other coaches. I understood that what was announced was true.

I thought that that was a safety feature of Pendos - possibly connected with tilt - so I'm surprised one loaded as full as described could move.

Merle Haggard said:

the brakes on the train won't release for safety reasons,

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I wasn't aware that was a thing, I know the tilting won't work (and thus the train limited to the normal speed limits) if the carriage is too heavy, but never heard it said like that, unless it was said like that just to get people to move.

Merle Haggard said:

I have been on a Pendolino (in Virgin days) when the conductor has announced that one particular coat has too many standing passengers and, as a result, the brakes on the train won't release for safety reasons, and asking passengers in that coach to move into other coaches. I understood that what was announced was true.

I thought that that was a safety feature of Pendos - possibly connected with tilt - so I'm surprised one loaded as full as described could move.

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It can move but is restricted to 110mph in most cases as the tilt is disabled.

On the subject off overcrowding; before Covid, Birmingham - Euston trains in the late afternoon/early evening were very crowded, although only excessively so as far as Coventry .

I regularly caught the 1620 from International - which originated in Scotland - and, when events were on at the NEC , I've had to stand (like a good user of a free pass) in the First of an 11 car Pendo (i.e., G to K all full).

mickey said:

Not common on that route, but absolutely is on others. The last trains out of Paddington can be exceptionally busy, particularly on Saturdays and especially in the summer. GWR even put up signs warning to expect it. The difference here though is that most people travelling are well used to it and will make room without arguing for others to cram into every last bit of space. I’ve seen people sitting in luggage racks, bike racks, even the floor of the big accessible toilets… but never people left behind. I don’t want to stereotype, but the customers you describe are perhaps less likely to have reacted in quite the same way. The GWR late-night services tend to be quite jolly in their own way, nowhere near as grim as you might think from the above description (plus it’s only that bad until Reading).

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Back in the days when there was a proper buffet car on the last train it was great! There was always a big, good natured, crowd waiting for the shutters on the bar to go up. You could neck one down between Paddington and Reading and often there was a singalong (on one occasion someone even had a guitar ). Ah, my misspent youth....

Skiddaw said:

Back in the days when there was a proper buffet car on the last train it was great! There was always a big, good natured, crowd waiting for the shutters on the bar to go up. You could neck one down between Paddington and Reading and often there was a singalong (on one occasion someone even had a guitar ). Ah, my misspent youth....

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I remember doing that in the early noughties !

I remember (also in the noughties) attending a concert at the Bolton Reebok stadium. We were queuing well past the time of the last train back, however Northern summoned up a six carriage relief train well past midnight I think.

Ended up getting a late night fry-up in the greasy spoon on the Piccadilly approach (those were the days !).

Moral of the story is it can happen.

mikeb42 said:

The 2249 Swansea in particular is frequently absolutely rammed and a quite disgusting excuse for a service. The 2203 Bristol is another frequent 5 coach disgrace on wheels.

Both can frequently be absolutely crush loaded as far as Reading but continue to be far too full to be a decent travelling environment as far west as Swindon.

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I stood as far as Cardiff on that in HST days! But with cheerful fellow passengers

lowe1409 said:

Personaly, I'd define disruption as something more severe than a 20 minute delay. And if it's a regular occurrence, which the north WCML arguably is, then it needs to be accommodated for.

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They don't usually send 20 late trains via the Trent Valley, tends to be if a bit later than that.

It is the one downside of combining Scotland - Birmingham - Euston. I don't see why they should be prioritising on time arrival into Euston when the faster 1Mxx service already exists.

Peter0124 said:

They don't usually send 20 late trains via the Trent Valley, tends to be if a bit later than that.

It is the one downside of combining Scotland - Birmingham - Euston. I don't see why they should be prioritising on time arrival into Euston when the faster 1Mxx service already exists.

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It's not about Euston arrival time. It'll be about making sure the train is in the right place at the right time to ensure it is on-time leaving Euston for it's northbound departure.

Several years ago now, as I tend to avoid Sunday travel, but I have seen the first Sunday train from Liverpool to Euston rammed full, and leave people on the platform after a big concert (or other event) on the Saturday night.

Bevan Price said:

Several years ago now, as I tend to avoid Sunday travel, but I have seen the first Sunday train from Liverpool to Euston rammed full, and leave people on the platform after a big concert (or other event) on the Saturday night.

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At least first train isn't as bad as last. Theres still trains to get you home

Skiddaw said:

Back in the days when there was a proper buffet car on the last train it was great! There was always a big, good natured, crowd waiting for the shutters on the bar to go up. You could neck one down between Paddington and Reading and often there was a singalong (on one occasion someone even had a guitar ). Ah, my misspent youth....

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I remember that vividly as well (I'm 46 now)

Jimini said:

I remember that vividly as well (I'm 46 now)

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Glad I'm not the only one!

yorksrob said:

I remember doing that in the early noughties !

I remember (also in the noughties) attending a concert at the Bolton Reebok stadium. We were queuing well past the time of the last train back, however Northern summoned up a six carriage relief train well past midnight I think.

Ended up getting a late night fry-up in the greasy spoon on the Piccadilly approach (those were the days !).

Moral of the story is it can happen.

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...Definitely not the only one!

Yes, late 80's up to the early noughties for me (I'm 62 now). I still get that last train occasionally after a night out in London (when staying with best friend who still lives near Reading) but it's a soulless experience these days. Mr S and I often reminisce about the adventures we all had on the Last Train to Clarkesville (as we called it).