Southeastern MG11 for short-faring with monthly season ticket – advice on likely next steps

Hi all,

I was stopped by Southeastern Revenue Protection recently and interviewed under caution / issued an MG11.

I fully accept that what I did was wrong. I regret it, have learned a serious lesson from this, and will make sure I always buy the correct ticket for my full journey from now on.

My normal journey starts from a station a few stops further out than New Cross, travelling into London. Until around three months ago, I had been buying the correct ticket from my actual starting station. I then started buying a monthly or weekly season ticket from New Cross into London, while still travelling from my actual starting station.

I usually travel around 3–5 days per week, mostly 5 days(every other week I might go only 3 days), always making return journeys.

During the interview I admitted what I had been doing. The officer had already checked my previous ticket purchase history and was aware of when I started buying the New Cross tickets. I was then given a reference number and told that the matter would be passed on.

I am not looking to dispute what happened. I would like to deal with this properly and, if possible, resolve it with Southeastern without it going to court.

I would really appreciate advice on:

1. How long Southeastern normally takes to contact someone after an MG11. I was told vaguely that it might be within weeks or months.
2. How they normally calculate fares where the short-faring involved a monthly/weekly season ticket rather than individual tickets. Would they normally recalculate each journey using single fares?
3. Once I receive their letter, is the usual approach to apologise, offer to pay the outstanding fares and reasonable administrative costs, and ask for an out-of-court settlement? What would be the best way to respond?

If anyone has seen a similar Southeastern case involving a short weekly/monthly season ticket, I would be very grateful to hear how it was handled.

Thanks very much.

Eric Jessy said:

Hi all,

I was stopped by Southeastern Revenue Protection recently and interviewed under caution / issued an MG11.

I fully accept that what I did was wrong. I regret it, have learned a serious lesson from this, and will make sure I always buy the correct ticket for my full journey from now on.

My normal journey starts from a station a few stops further out than New Cross, travelling into London. Until around three months ago, I had been buying the correct ticket from my actual starting station. I then started buying a monthly or weekly season ticket from New Cross into London, while still travelling from my actual starting station.

I usually travel around 3–5 days per week, mostly 5 days(every other week I might go only 3 days), always making return journeys.

During the interview I admitted what I had been doing. The officer had already checked my previous ticket purchase history and was aware of when I started buying the New Cross tickets. I was then given a reference number and told that the matter would be passed on.

I am not looking to dispute what happened. I would like to deal with this properly and, if possible, resolve it with Southeastern without it going to court.

I would really appreciate advice on:

1. How long Southeastern normally takes to contact someone after an MG11. I was told vaguely that it might be within weeks or months.
2. How they normally calculate fares where the short-faring involved a monthly/weekly season ticket rather than individual tickets. Would they normally recalculate each journey using single fares?
3. Once I receive their letter, is the usual approach to apologise, offer to pay the outstanding fares and reasonable administrative costs, and ask for an out-of-court settlement? What would be the best way to respond?

If anyone has seen a similar Southeastern case involving a short weekly/monthly season ticket, I would be very grateful to hear how it was handled.

Thanks very much.

Click to expand...

On the basis of this forum (worth searching Southeastern/this forum rather than being too specific) the answers to all 3 are yes. When they contact you please come back for relevant advice, and meanwhile do your sums on a worst-case basis (assume 5 day week not 7!).

They might I suppose calculate the fares owed from origin station to New Cross. Usually at the Anytime single rate. Ie giving credit for the ticket actually held.

There’s a clear element of pre meditated evasion here given the decision to buy season tickets to facilitate it.

Mind you we’ve seen South eastern cases on here where there has never been the expected follow up from the back office for reasons that aren’t clear to me. Do we know if they’ve moved on from that?

WesternLancer said:

Mind you we’ve seen South eastern cases on here where there has never been the expected follow up from the back office for reasons that aren’t clear to me. Do we know if they’ve moved on from that?

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I believe so, yes.

Eric Jessy said:

Hi all,

I was stopped by Southeastern Revenue Protection recently and interviewed under caution / issued an MG11.

I fully accept that what I did was wrong. I regret it, have learned a serious lesson from this, and will make sure I always buy the correct ticket for my full journey from now on.

My normal journey starts from a station a few stops further out than New Cross, travelling into London. Until around three months ago, I had been buying the correct ticket from my actual starting station. I then started buying a monthly or weekly season ticket from New Cross into London, while still travelling from my actual starting station.

I usually travel around 3–5 days per week, mostly 5 days(every other week I might go only 3 days), always making return journeys.

During the interview I admitted what I had been doing. The officer had already checked my previous ticket purchase history and was aware of when I started buying the New Cross tickets. I was then given a reference number and told that the matter would be passed on.

I am not looking to dispute what happened. I would like to deal with this properly and, if possible, resolve it with Southeastern without it going to court.

I would really appreciate advice on:

1. How long Southeastern normally takes to contact someone after an MG11. I was told vaguely that it might be within weeks or months.
2. How they normally calculate fares where the short-faring involved a monthly/weekly season ticket rather than individual tickets. Would they normally recalculate each journey using single fares?
3. Once I receive their letter, is the usual approach to apologise, offer to pay the outstanding fares and reasonable administrative costs, and ask for an out-of-court settlement? What would be the best way to respond?

If anyone has seen a similar Southeastern case involving a short weekly/monthly season ticket, I would be very grateful to hear how it was handled.

Thanks very much.

Click to expand...

1. How long Southeastern normally takes to contact someone after an MG11. I was told vaguely that it might be within weeks or months.

Click to expand...

Might easily be 6 to 8 weeks or longer - If you have not heard in about 4 months head back here for advice on what you may want to consider doing.

2. How they normally calculate fares where the short-faring involved a monthly/weekly season ticket rather than individual tickets. Would they normally recalculate each journey using single fares?

Click to expand...

Anytime single fares for each one way journey

3. Once I receive their letter, is the usual approach to apologise, offer to pay the outstanding fares and reasonable administrative costs, and ask for an out-of-court settlement? What would be the best way to respond?

Click to expand...

See below in the general advice often given.


This general advice might be of help to you in terms of what to expect and what to do about it:

Firstly, you committed a criminal offence by travelling with an invalid ticket and railway companies are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. The good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

Next, what happens is the railway company will write to you. The letter will go to the address that you gave them / on any of your ID they checked so you need to be able to access hard copy post at that address as they often send things that way (but also check e-mail and spam). It is extremely important that you reply, and you'll only have a limited time to do so (often 14 days from the date on their communication).

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The railway will probably offer you an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare for the journey you made at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you purchased. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150. They will also audit your online ticket purchase history and if this shows you've purchased other tickets that were not valid (eg railcard discounted tickets when you did not have a valid railcard, or tickets for only part of the journey, or tickets bought after boarding the train you travelled on ) they will probably factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement offer. Depending on how many journeys you've made over the period concerned this could end up being expensive.

Settlements usually have to be paid in full within a few days of them being offered so if money is tight you might want to think about how you will raise the sum required at short notice.

Eric Jessy said:

I usually travel around 3–5 days per week, mostly 5 days(every other week I might go only 3 days), always making return journeys.

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I think that any outstanding fares will be calculated on the assumption that you were travelling on at least 5 days each week.