The key point to remember is that XC have no discretion over this.
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Cross-operator ticket acceptance announced (excluding East Midlands Railway, OAOs) when services are cancelled
- Thread starter Adam Williams
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Update on the XC website gives a whole host of route options, including that tickets are valid via London and LNER, and instructions for how to get through the tube barriers. So well done to them, I guess.
Not well done at all as they say "- LNER services between Doncaster - London Kings Cross" which is not correct and implies not valid beyond Doncaster when it is. The policy is clear and simple. If you are going to state operators that tickets are valid on don't state incorrect limits on validity.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It also says "the CrossCountry service up to two hours before" etc. Some work needed here.
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That’s right.
It says: "If your CrossCountry train is cancelled, then you can use your ticket on the two CrossCountry services operating before and the two CrossCountry services after your cancelled service"
That is wrong. It should say "two hours before and after".
Also, 2 services before or after could be more than 2 hours such as from Penzance where 2 services after would likely mean the next day which they definitely don't intend to mean.
GWR says slightly better but still wrong "If your train is cancelled, you may travel on either of the two services before, or two services after, your original train.". Given TfW aren't participating in the 2hour rule the grey area between Carmarthen and Newport gets more grey.
You really do have to wonder how it is so complicated to repeat on Journey Check what all TOC's are posting on X. I would take the above to both be in addition to the actual policy so therefore extending it beyond two hours in some cases.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
To take account of infrequent services, when this "two hours" thing first came up it did indeed say two before/two after or any within two hours. If it's within two hours at some places on the network there may not be one!
If the cancelled train was the first of the day and the journey is time critical (e.g. a flight) the last one the previous day may indeed be the most relevant! Though I don't think that's the intention.
That wording would be sensible and yet isn't anywhere on the DfT release.
I think the idea of the government is to avoid the over-complicated legalistic approach so beloved by the railway (and to be fair relished by many railfans) and adopt a common sense customer focused approach.
Clearly the "room" is changing.
That’s fine, so long as passengers aren’t legally pursued for making honest mistakes.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That's the issue really. If Penalty Fares and prosecutions are in play, the entitlement needs to be clear and specific, not rely on interpretations of what is reasonable.
Quite. I know that it seems to upset some people when I point it out, but it's a criminal offence if you use your ticket in a way you aren't entitled to and therefore the rules need to be clear and communicated to passengers and not kept as secret internal guidance.
In any other business or area this level of ambiguity and unrevealed internal memo policies would not be expected or tolerated but in tail its just taken as expected and normal. Only rail could mess up such a simple policy roll out this badly.
That is the stupidity of it.
They won't, but in the meantime people will worry that they will, have a stressful journey, and decide to drive next time.
I do despair of the railway's inability to add 2 and 2
canary fan
Member
Add to the ambiguity, poorly paid and trained subcontracted staff financially incentivised to catch passengers out.
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
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Who are you referring to here, and what is the financial incentive?
kieron
Established Member
The DfT press release didn't mention anything about the tube, or any other TfL services. Do you (or anyone) know if there's a policy on this, or if we're expected to wait to see if permission is granted on the day?
There is no policy!
Yes, it's still ad-hoc acceptance.
Generally, I find TfL acceptance does not exist for widespread issues (e.g. strike action, or easements in place due to non-rail disruption such as the flight issues caused by ATC failure a few weeks ago), but for more "localised" issues like this there will often be TfL acceptance between National Rail terminals.
Haywain
Veteran Member
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The worst that is likely to happen, from a train company perspective, is seeing a not guilty verdict returned in the magistrates court, that's hardly being hammered.
Adam Williams
Established Member
Which is daft and incredibly frustrating, really. They're getting paid for cross-London tickets by virtue of the Through Ticketing (Non-Travelcard) Agreement. This isn't a problem for almost every other participant in the National Rail system, it's just TfL that expect affected passengers to pay again.
You could see it turning into some negative press if it was truly egregious.
Haywain
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Maybe, but it would have to be particularly bad.
OneOfThe48
Member
It does not extend to TfL services - bus, underground or rail
hammered in the press, hammered by the government
modernrail
Established Member
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Not if they do it to me it isn’t. I will also do them for abuse of process! The whole way in which railway companies have been abusing their powers in this area is another thing that is going to have to stop. It was never going to work giving those powers to private companies who then thought they could get clever about how to apply them.
I strongly suspect a cultural shift in behaviour will arrive fairly quickly in any case.
redreni
Established Member
LNER has form for agreeing acceptance only by certain routes. E.g. WCML closed at milton Keynes, they agree acceptance London to Manchester via Leeds, but not London to Manchester via Doncaster & Sheffield. Very annoying when your destination is Stockport so you'd rather not go via Manchester at all.
Staff on the ground are generally more flexible than those in Control, but this new regime should get rid of a lot of "Excuse me, my journey has been disrupted, please may I..." type conversations.
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Absolutely.
It's basic comms - if the rule is any reasonable route on the services of these operators [insert full list of participating operators] then that's what you need to say.
As soon as you start listing diversion routes you can take you're in trouble. I know they mean to be helpful, but it's impossible in the abstract to think of every reasonable diversionary route any passenger may take, so they need to be making it clear that any routes they're suggesting are just examples and that other reasonable routes are also allowed.
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It is certainly not in the gift of the TOC that has the cancellation service failure to determine what routes are reasonable.
Ken_Ilworth
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I noticed LNR being very clear on Twitter/X this morning that the policy only applies to cancellation, not delay. (I assume the poster tweeting LNR genuinely believed delays were included in the policy.) There's probably many examples in the last couple of weeks but it is the first very-clear example I've personally seen..
https://x.com/LNRailway/status/2108816510823063600?s=20
(Picture above is screenshot of LNR tweet/X at 0808 on 10th October 2026. The tweet includes "Ticket acceptance only kicks in if a service has been cancelled, which is why our staff will be declining to take Avanti passengers")
https://x.com/LNRailway/status/2108816510823063600?s=20
(Picture above is screenshot of LNR tweet/X at 0808 on 10th October 2026. The tweet includes "Ticket acceptance only kicks in if a service has been cancelled, which is why our staff will be declining to take Avanti passengers")
If, for example, you have a 'Cross Country only' ticket, your Cross Country service is cancelled and you instead take an alternative route involving LNER, which should have got you to your destination within 20 minutes of your original time. However, the LNER service is delayed by 60 minutes, who does the Delay Repay responsibility sit with, especially if it should be LNER but you are seeking to claim via a ticket marked 'Cross Country only'?