Sadiq Khan says future of Heathrow Express should be ‘reconsidered’ due to Elizabeth line success

cle said:

Airport transport should prioritize workers, even.

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The HEX is not bad value for Heathrow workers.

I think Heathrow's own staff (e.g. security staff) get free travel after 6pm. All other staff get a 75% discount.

Cdd89 said:

The HEX is not bad value for Heathrow workers.

I think Heathrow's own staff (e.g. security staff) get free travel after 6pm. All other staff get a 75% discount.

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You’d think all staff working for Heathrow Airport Holdings would get free travel all the time anyway just like us ex-BR employees do.

dk1 said:

You’d think all staff working for Heathrow Airport Holdings would get free travel all the time anyway just like us ex-BE employees do.

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There are so many staff employed at Heathrow that I can understand them not wanting to make it free all the time, it might result in overcrowding (especially around shift change times) that it would defeat the point of the Hex being a "premium" option.

Watershed said:

There are so many staff employed at Heathrow that I can understand them not wanting to make it free all the time, it might result in overcrowding (especially around shift change times) that it would defeat the point of the Hex being a "premium" option.

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Thanks that would make sense. I mistakenly typed BE when I meant ex-BR.

Watershed said:

There are so many staff employed at Heathrow that I can understand them not wanting to make it free all the time, it might result in overcrowding (especially around shift change times) that it would defeat the point of the Hex being a "premium" option.

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Though there’s a big difference between “working AT Heathrow” and working FOR Heathrow” (presumably a much smaller number).

Benjwri said:

The Heathrow Express makes a profit of £38 million against around 4.5 million journeys. You could cut the fares by almost £10 and break even. That’s not even accounting for increases in passenger loading from lower fares resulting in higher revenue.

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It's not made those sorts of numbers for years. The latest accounts show less than £1m operating profit with declining income and rising costs. Not looking like a viable business in the long term. Unless HAL feel the urge to run it as a loss leader it won't be around for long.

The real value for HAL is what it can charge airlines for the Airport RAB, which the main fixed assets sit under. The train operation is effectively bunce.

The interesting point about the 2025 accounts is that HAL extracted over £100m out of the business. It now has assets of less than £30m. It has also prepared for 2028 by increasing amortisation and depreciation, which is fairly minor. Inter-business charges have also increased.

It looks as if the business is being publicly positioned to look as if it isn’t the big earner it has been in previous years which, in truth, is correct. But it isn’t a huge loss maker either.

Actual passenger revenue was slightly up from 2024 but compensation from the likes of NR and HS2 was down.

Gwyn Topham, the Guardian's Transport correspondent, moots the idea of ending the Heathrow Express.

The obvious airport train, as unwary visitors often find out too late, may not be the best one. The Heathrow Express, which charges a whopping £26 for a 15- to 21-minute one-way hop, was long one of the most expensive airport connections around (at least until it was overtaken by the Luton Dart). It is, as advertised, technically the fastest way to central London, though passengers travelling beyond Paddington may reach their destination more quickly on the Elizabeth line or even the tube on a direct route.

For those who value the speed – in addition to TV news, a toilet and a luggage rack – it may be the perfect service. But the Heathrow Express was only used by 4.5 million passengers last year, a figure that represents, at best, less than 6% of Heathrow’s air passengers, with the number bolstered by airport staff on heavily discounted tickets.

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Personally I find the Heathrow Express to be pretty good. I don't think I have ever paid the quoted £26 as I have a railcard but, even if I did, it is worth it for the faster journey time and large baggage racks. It would be better if it went to London Euston or King's Cross rather than middle-of-nowhere Paddington but the tracks are clearly where they are. It would seem a little silly to try and force so many users, especially those with lots of baggage, onto the Elizabeth Line. It would be disappointing to see it go.

This very thread is discussing this topic. I am on the get rid of it and quick, the Elizabeth line is quicker for where I need to go. Changing at Farringdon (once) is better then needing to use the tube and another station.The tube isn’t good with lots of luggage, the Elizabeth line is better

The important question is what would you do with the paths. There's no space on the fast lines west of Heathrow Jn, and the EL core is pretty close to capacity, so you'd basically be replacing HEX with a cheaper Paddington shuttle.

I think the £10-15 flexible airport advances are pretty good value for what you get, and to fill seats, many more should be made available (including on the day of travel). If the operation's still financially sustainable once most travellers are paying much less than £26 single then that'd be a way to keep it afloat, otherwise it's probably a bit of a liability.

Though unlike Gatwick (where the Express is quite pointless, and a lot of its usage is by Brighton-London premium farepayers), Heathrow with its very few low cost carriers is naturally going to have an above average proportion of passengers that will be choosing between HEX and a taxi/private transfer, while the EL with its constant churn and no luggage space won't even be considered. If the loss of these passengers is offset by whatever alternative growth could be achieved with an alternative use of the paths, then sure, replace it, otherwise I'm sceptical.

Oslo is planning to replace its airport express (Flytoget) by 2028, essentially running the same trains on the same paths, just giving the trains commuter rail branding and removing the premium fares. It'll provide a bit of insight into how something similar would work out at Heathrow, although unlike Heathrow, alternative local train services to Oslo airport only run 1-2 times an hour, so it'll be more impactful than a HEX replacement would be.

I’m not sure the core is at capacity, but even if it is then some of the Paddington terminators could simply be extended to T5.

Elshad said:

I’m not sure the core is at capacity, but even if it is then some of the Paddington terminators could simply be extended to T5.

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A few questions:
- Is it even possible to access the GWML fast lines from the EL core without messing up the entire GWR timetable?

- Currently of the 8tph (12 at peaks) from Shenfield, 6 (10 at peaks) terminate at Paddington with 2 extending to Heathrow T5. Suppose you extended another four in place of HEX, what'd you do with the remaining 2tph (6 at peaks) turning around in Paddington low level? Surely that'd be operationally inconvenient?

- As HEX uses the fast lines, any replacement EL service would have to use these too and run non-stop to the airport. How would that work on e.g. the tube map or in-train diagrams, and are the 90mph max class 345s appropriate for fast line running?

- AFAIK the Paddington terminators will be extended to Old Oak Common within 5-10 years anyway. Will this make it easier or harder to use up the HEX paths suitably? I presume OOC station design didn't really take into consideration what would be done if the Heathrow Express were ever replaced, as the DfT have no intention to do so.

The EL west of Paddington could do with more trains, particularly at peak times, but these should be trains serving Hayes & Harlington, Ealing Broadway, Southall etc. - not that many EL passengers at peak times are people wanting to travel specifically from Heathrow to Paddington (high level) who would take the HEX if it were cheaper.

Is there really no space on the slow lines west of Paddington? The current timetable shows 12tph at Ealing Broadway eastbound between 8 and 9AM on weekdays.

Could this not be stretched to at least 14 to give T5 a 15 minute service?

That would give 8tph to Heathrow T2/3 with 4 each to T4 and T5

Elshad said:

I’m not sure the core is at capacity, but even if it is then some of the Paddington terminators could simply be extended to T5.

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No, it is not actually simple. There are issues with relief (slow) line capacity, and there are also issues with crossing to the main (fast) lines. It’s a subject that’s been covered in this and every previous thread about Hex and Crossrail options for change.